FRUSTRATION with Lone Star Special. Need advice please.

[SabuJSE]

Yup - and then if you hit that OD in the second channel - mayhem!

It's all in what kind of a main tone you are going for. The LSS is perfect for me.

 

[BlueBones]

And I have good JJ tubes in there now.

Sorry for highjacking the thread, but i have a LSS aswell. I have the same comments about the mids on ch2 (the Highs i don't mind)

But my questions is about your JJ's. What do you think vs Stock? (other than your problems with ch2 )

The JJs (ALL 12ax7s and EL84s) made a noticeable improvement. High gain sounds clearly better, clean not much change, except for in the 5 watt setting, where it seems the harmonics are even more rich.

 

[BlueBones]

Man, I'm not trying to bag on anyone here, but the LSS is absolutely the wrong amp for what you want. It's simply designed for a different tone.
There's nothing wrong with the amp, it was your choice that was faulty.
It's like choosing penicillin to treat a severed artery. That's not what it was designed for.

Well it might be the wrong amp for me, but on paper its not. What exactly do you think I'm looking for? Not a Recto, man. I think it has enough gain for me, if that's what you mean...Its the TONE I don't like enough on channel 2.

 

[BlueBones]

Let me also add to the above: What's wrong with using an OD pedal?

Hell, I have a Pod XTL in the effect loops and with some of the stomps in there - most noticably, the Fuzz PI stomp - I can get 4 glorious tones out of Channel 1, Ch 1 + Stomp, Channel 2, Ch 2 + Stomp. Clean, Blues Overdrive, Crunch, Dripping Distortion.

I love these all in one floor units. Toss all my pedals, have everything I need in one, designed to be like the pedals I just tossed.

I've never liked the tone of the OD pedals I've tried...and if I'm dropping lots of coin for 2 GOOD channels, then I'll not be happy with only 1.

 

[BlueBones]

It's my experience that those are the qualities of the EL-84 sound.

I tried a LSS when the local store got one, and immediately noticed that character. It's simply that the amp is designed to sound that way.

The cleans are Awesome (as are most EL-84 amps), but if you don't desire that ragged, dirty, gritty drive, it's not the amp for you.

Sounds like you really prefer the 6L6 or 6V6 tone. I know I do.

No, not at all....I wrote that the ragged, gritty driven tone is just what I want.! Can't get it so far - The amp is too mild mannered in channel two. Not the opposite.

 

[BlueBones]

Thanks, all, for your thoughts. I'm not giving up on it yet - Every time I put in an hour tweaking, I get closer to where I want it. Getting the master up near 12:00 and beyond really makes a huge difference in Ch. 2. I wish I could get better high gain tone at lower volumes, but it seems the power section really needs to be well opened up with this amp.

 

[LSCMan]

Doesn't just about everybody use pedals? :?

 

[RR]

Doesn't just about everybody use pedals? :?

I guess I'm in the minority, I don't use any pedals. Ever since I played a crank up my first amp, an old 12 watt Fender Princeton, I was into "natural" tube distortion.

I don't have anything against pedal and effects. I mean, its pretty fun playing with a phaser, flanger etc ... but then its gets old for m after an hour.

 

[cnumb44]

Thanks, all, for your thoughts. I'm not giving up on it yet - Every time I put in an hour tweaking, I get closer to where I want it. Getting the master up near 12:00 and beyond really makes a huge difference in Ch. 2. I wish I could get better high gain tone at lower volumes, but it seems the power section really needs to be well opened up with this amp.

I have been using the FX loop as an attenuator with some good success. On my LSC I noticed that my best tones were at volume/gain that is too much for my practice room and family. I set the send level on the back at 12 o'clock and then use the front output to adjust overall volume. I find that it works well until it is down to about 9 o'clock. If that isn't low enough then adjust the send level in the back.

It is very effective and I really don't notice tonal change but the Mesa folks say that there is a little loss of high frequencies.

 

[RR]

I don't know if this is any help but something I have experienced.

When I bought a Trem-o-Verb, it took me a while understanding how treble controls govern the other tone controls (coming from old Fenders, Marshalls). Anyway, I slowly got famliar with this amp and the tone grew on me. I thought it was all just getting familiar with the amp.

Just recently my friend moved with his parent-in-law. He left his 4x12" equip with brand new Celestion Vintage 30s with me. My 4x12" Vintage 30s sure sound different than his Vintage 30s. His sound bloaty, and kinda tight "***" if there's a description. My 4x12" Celestions sounded loosen up, sweeter and looser, extended bottom end.

Guess what? My friend's 4x12" Vintage Celestions reminded me how my Trem-o-Verb first sounded. :!: I rather play my 4x12" of "broken-in" Vintage 30s.

I conclude I really think brand new speakers needs to be broken in :idea: Just a thought ...

 

[BlueBones]

I have been using the FX loop as an attenuator with some good success. On my LSC I noticed that my best tones were at volume/gain that is too much for my practice room and family. I set the send level on the back at 12 o'clock and then use the front output to adjust overall volume. I find that it works well until it is down to about 9 o'clock. If that isn't low enough then adjust the send level in the back.

It is very effective and I really don't notice tonal change but the Mesa folks say that there is a little loss of high frequencies.

Well, either you're a genius or I'm an idiot, or both. This works pretty well, you're right. Because I haven't used effects yet, I've bypassed the loop for better tone (theoritically). This helps a lot with low vol, high gain tone. I'd still like it to be better, bit I'm more hopeful still. Thanks.

 

[bcbooya]

I have been using the FX loop as an attenuator with some good success. On my LSC I noticed that my best tones were at volume/gain that is too much for my practice room and family. I set the send level on the back at 12 o'clock and then use the front output to adjust overall volume. I find that it works well until it is down to about 9 o'clock. If that isn't low enough then adjust the send level in the back.

I guess I don't quite understand the logic behind this. Aren't you still only adjusting the amount of preamp signal going into the power section? I was under the impression that an attenuator brings down the signal between the power tubes and the speaker. I thought that the reason the LSS sounds better at those higher volumes is because you're hitting the power tubes harder, and if you're using the fx loop to control volume you are back where you started.

Am I wrong in thinking this, or is there something special about the FX loop on these Lonestar amps that I don't know about?

 

[BlueBones]

I have been using the FX loop as an attenuator with some good success. On my LSC I noticed that my best tones were at volume/gain that is too much for my practice room and family. I set the send level on the back at 12 o'clock and then use the front output to adjust overall volume. I find that it works well until it is down to about 9 o'clock. If that isn't low enough then adjust the send level in the back.

I guess I don't quite understand the logic behind this. Aren't you still only adjusting the amount of preamp signal going into the power section? I was under the impression that an attenuator brings down the signal between the power tubes and the speaker. I thought that the reason the LSS sounds better at those higher volumes is because you're hitting the power tubes harder, and if you're using the fx loop to control volume you are back where you started.

Am I wrong in thinking this, or is there something special about the FX loop on these Lonestar amps that I don't know about?

It's not really an attenuator, but with the effects loop circuitry engaged, you have two output levels after the preamp (master and output). I'm not quite sure how both the masters and output together are effecting the power section, but it allows you to set the master volume higher and restrict the final output volume with the output control. This sounds better (at lower volume with high gain) than with the effects loop disengaged. When the loop is out, the master is the final output, and with high gain on channel 2 and the master set at 9:00 or 10:00, the tone sounds crappy.

 

[lprstratuser]

BlueBones: Question for you: When you put the amp in its 35w output jack, what power settings were you on in CH 2..?
Also, try setting your input gain ALL THE WAY UP, and back off on your "Drive" knob...(use it like an onboard "808" in your approach to sort of add the over-the-top gain you might be looking for.)
...Bottom line, you'll get better results by not being shy with the "Gain" settings. That goes for Channel 1 as well-TURN THE GAIN ALL THE WAY UP and drive it like an old Black Face Super. If you liked the clean tone before, check out the sheer bloom and sensitivity you get by just simply driving the channel more. Don't worry that it clips sooner, ultra clean is not what a circuit like this is all about...the good news is how well it cleans up when you back off on the volume of your guitar...give it a shot if you haven't already, and let us know how you fare...
ANOTHER TIP: As you turn up the volume (Master), turn the Bass control down....WAY DOWN. Some turn it almost all the way off at stage volumes, leaving it open just enough to let the circuit breathe, and then letting the speaker baffle do the rest of the work for you. The bottom end is much more natural and less "woofy" that way. The approach on this EQ section is, in fact not unlike that of an old Black Face Circuit...lots of gain in the eq, and very interactive. My point is not to treat it as "additive", but more as if it were "interactive" as I mentioned earlier.
...Hope this helps,

 

[BlueBones]

BlueBones: Question for you: When you put the amp in its 35w output jack, what power settings were you on in CH 2..?
Also, try setting your input gain ALL THE WAY UP, and back off on your "Drive" knob...(use it like an onboard "808" in your approach to sort of add the over-the-top gain you might be looking for.)
...Bottom line, you'll get better results by not being shy with the "Gain" settings. That goes for Channel 1 as well-TURN THE GAIN ALL THE WAY UP and drive it like an old Black Face Super. If you liked the clean tone before, check out the sheer bloom and sensitivity you get by just simply driving the channel more. Don't worry that it clips sooner, ultra clean is not what a circuit like this is all about...the good news is how well it cleans up when you back off on the volume of your guitar...give it a shot if you haven't already, and let us know how you fare...
ANOTHER TIP: As you turn up the volume (Master), turn the Bass control down....WAY DOWN. Some turn it almost all the way off at stage volumes, leaving it open just enough to let the circuit breathe, and then letting the speaker baffle do the rest of the work for you. The bottom end is much more natural and less "woofy" that way. The approach on this EQ section is, in fact not unlike that of an old Black Face Circuit...lots of gain in the eq, and very interactive. My point is not to treat it as "additive", but more as if it were "interactive" as I mentioned earlier.
...Hope this helps,

Thanks. I tried all the power settings on ch 2 with the 35 watt jack. Don't recall right now which I preferred - They all seemed to be better though.

I've definitely tried the gain high with lower drive. I want to avoid using a pedal if possible though.

I'll try using extremely low bass settings.

 

[boogiemon]

If any of you guys need more gain on ch2, just bring the treble up to 3 o'clock along w/the drive & gain knobs. keep the presence down for a singing tone, up for recto/marshall tones.

g'luck.