For those that use / tried EL34s

[Catthan]

It seems the consensus is that ch.2 & 3 may benefit whereas ch.1 takes a hit.

So let me put it like this;

Does, in your opinion, the benefit in ch.2 & 3 outweigh the "damage" done to ch.1.

I must admit I stay in ch.1 longer so I should probably strive to have it as good as it gets. However, it's ch.3 I'm enjoying more and ch.2 that I need to tweak somehow.

The amp is under warranty so blending power tubes, throwing kt77s or 6CA7s in there or a TS in V1 ain't an option. Maybe a spax7 but that would be if noise became an issue.

So, the only options to satisfy my curiosity and see if I can optimize-alter-experiment with what I already like is through Mesa el34s.

Please also describe your setting: amp modes, gigging vs home player, style, pickups etc.

For me it's clean bold, crunch and extreme, loop in, 90W, gigging funk based covers with some arrangements calling for face-melting solos and/ or tight OD rhythms.

Thanks in advance to all willing to contribute.

 

[SteveO]

The hit to channel one isn't as big as some people might lead you to believe. I actually prefer EL35s in mine, though at the moment the 6L6s are in it.

 

[LesPaul70]

It seems the consensus is that ch.2 & 3 may benefit whereas ch.1 takes a hit.

Don't know about consensus but that's pretty close to how I see it anyway.
More specifically, I would say that - with EL-34s - channel 1 definitely loses something (at least a little), channel 2 definitely gains something (at least a little), and channel 3 is slightly different, some people prefer it with EL-34s, some with 6L6s.

Note that I don't use stock Mesa EL-34s, only original Svetlana =C= tubes.

The big question is what kind of sound (channel/mode) you use the most in your songs. You want that sound to be as great as possible since you will be using and hearing it a lot. If it rubs you the wrong way every time you hear it, there's little consolation in having other excellent sounds that you can kick in every now and then.

Like Steve said above, the difference is not huge. Any channel and mode can be made to work with either power tube type, it just might take a little more work. I know that I was really struggling with the Crunch and Mark I modes when I had the 6L6s in my V; the Crunch mode always sounded like a Marshall with blown G12T speakers in my cab (no matter what speakers I actually had!), and the Mark I mode was just too tubby and mushy sounding for anything except Santana lead imitations. Also, the channel 3 modes were somehow sterile and boxy sounding, and the Bright switch was totally unusuable, sheer murder on my ears.

With EL-34s, the Edge and Crunch modes gained a very distinctly British accent, which instantly took you to the Marshall/Orange/Laney ballpark (although without that uppermid spike you would get from an actual Marshall; the frequency response was more balanced). That made a lot more sense to me than anything I could get from them with 6L6s. Also, the Mark I mode turned into something of a 'big brother' of those British-voiced amps. Beastly gain, darker 'post-puberty' sound, very easy to deal in great rhythm and lead sounds with and without the Thick switch engaged.
Channel 3 was also better to my ears - more midrange grind and aggression, and no more ice-pick highs! But it still took me - let's say - a while before I unlocked truly great high-gain sounds on channel 3. With 6L6s, I could be still looking for those sounds.
On the debit side, I found myself struggling trying to find a clean tone that had as much depth and warmth as the 6L6 cleans had easily provided. I needed to tweak both the channel tone controls as well as the GEQ or preset EQ a lot to take me even close. ...yes, note that the clean sound I prefer to use is that big, deep, resonant 'faux-acoustic' kind of sound (and 6L6s really shine there) rather than spanky funk sounds.

Also note that some people have experienced that EL-34s make the V more 'vintage' sounding while 6L6s make it more 'modern' sounding. I would add that EL-34s make it more 'alive' sounding while 6L6s make it more 'hi-fi' sounding.

But why not just experiment and see what fits you best?

 

[OldTelecasterMan]

I am also interested in the EL34 possibility. People speak of CH1 not being quite what it is with the 6L6 tubes. Installing EL34s (4 of them) exactly what does it do or not do? How does it change the sound, tone and clarity? Does ch1 sound like it’s clipping and driving or does it just get sparkly?

 

[LesPaul70]

There will be power tube saturation a little earlier than with 6L6s but I would say that the biggest difference is that the frequency focus moves more to the midrange. So there is (perceptibly) a little less deep bass and high sparkle. 6L6s just sound deeper and bigger. Think dreadnought acoustic (6L6s) vs a regular-sized one (EL-34s).

There are uses for either.

 

[jb's 52]

There will be power tube saturation a little earlier than with 6L6s but I would say that the biggest difference is that the frequency focus moves more to the midrange. So there is (perceptibly) a little less deep bass and high sparkle. 6L6s just sound deeper and bigger. Think dreadnought acoustic (6L6s) vs a regular-sized one (EL-34s).

There are uses for either.

This right here...IME

6L6s gives me that "3D" sound and I use it with my current band where I play a lot of guitar parts by myself.
EL34s helped me to stay in a more "focused frequency" with my last, two-guitar band.

 

[skoora]

Gotta say I agree with everyone so far. I currently have 34's in mine and it definitely did something I like for CH 2 and 3. But I wasn't hating 6L6's at all. I got 34's just out of curiosity and haven't gone back but I'm not throwing my 6L's away. Definitely the biggest change was how big and bell like the clean channel can get. I prefer using that channel for medium gain and dirt tones so it hasn't been a big deal. Damn! I wish the amp had a mini Roadking type power section where you had 2 of each and could set pairs for each channel. I would say that 34's had the biggest impact on Edge and Crunch in CH 2.

On a side note I love Extreme for a big natural rock tone where you don't need much from the GEQ if any on the low end.

This amp is killer. have trouble getting a dirty rhythm sound on Edge (top end can get a little thin and cutting on the higher strings), turn up the gain on channel one, use that and lower the gain on Edge and use that as a clean. All channels take pedals well.

Also I've developed a habit of running it through a Hotplate so I can get the volume up as I think it makes a huge difference on how the amp responds. Plus it lets you experiment with getting the channel masters up there which also adds gain and changes the EQ response, sometimes for the better.

 

[bandit2013]

I have had some Mesa EL34, they sound a bit thin compared to the 6L6GC. The clean channel seems to gain a little grit to it and the low end is not as strong or defined as it would be with the 6L6GC. I prefer the piano like tone I can get with the 6L6GC compared to the EL34.

 

[sfx70]

I'm using a matched set of JJ 6CA7 and it gives me way better drive tones and sweeter cleans with no compromise. I find the stock 6L6s are too edgy and too boomy and the EQ doesn't help it either.
I also find it easier to dial in tones that I like.

I do have a TungSol 12ax7 in V1 and JJ 12ax7 in V2.

 

[Catthan]

I'm using a matched set of JJ 6CA7 and it gives me way better drive tones and sweeter cleans with no compromise. I find the stock 6L6s are too edgy and too boomy and the EQ doesn't help it either.
I also find it easier to dial in tones that I like.

I do have a TungSol 12ax7 in V1 and JJ 12ax7 in V2.

That's interesting.
What are the differences between 6CA7 and EL34s? Do Mesa make them or would I be voiding my warranty if I put them on?
What bias setting do you run them at, el34?

 

[bandit2013]

6CA7, KT77 both use the EL34 bias setting.

6CA7 will have the complex harmonic tone when saturated, nice deep low end but tight compared to 6L6. Top end is rolled off a bit so the ice pick potential is reduced. Also similar characteristics to EL34 with early distortion. Definitely a hybrid tube (6CA7 was European version of the American 6L6 but based on EL34 designs, Historically they were large bottle similar to 6L6, and have changed over the years to a smaller bottle, so it can vary depending on MFG. In most cases the tubes will be labeled as 6CA7 / EL34 (probably to prevent use in the 6L6GC bias amp).

As for clean channel, acoustic guitar tone will be diminished with EL34 due to early onset of distortion. more of a smooth groove blues tone than what you get with 6L6. Same applies for 6CA7, similar character to EL34 on the clean but not as dramatic.