'Flabby/Muddy' Bass on the Lonestar? Want to change it?
- Thread starter Charles Reeder
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thirstypirate
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Great! I hope you get as much enjoyment out your Lonestar as I've been getting over the last few months.
plan-x
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You just got around to the 2nd mod now? What took so long? :lol:
plan-x
Well-known member
I wish I could run some 34's just for the 2nd ch. Actually, before the mods, I ran some 34's and they helped ch 2's tone while not loosing a whole lot from ch 1. Hmmmm.
Necromancy!
That aside, this mod sounds interesting, but I don't think I've seen anything in the way of pictures of what's being done here, just words. Don't get me wrong, words and explanations are important, but without some kind of visual representation of what's going on and being changed be it schematics or photgraphs, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Anyone got before/after photos, or diagrams detailing the change?
That aside, this mod sounds interesting, but I don't think I've seen anything in the way of pictures of what's being done here, just words. Don't get me wrong, words and explanations are important, but without some kind of visual representation of what's going on and being changed be it schematics or photgraphs, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Anyone got before/after photos, or diagrams detailing the change?
plan-x
Well-known member
I did the mod to my Traynor amp and it worked. Any amp (I suspect) that still has sound after tone controls are turned all the way down, it will work on. After the mod, all sound goes away with tone pots turned all the way down. Kind of like switching the EQ section from a parallel to a series. On my Traynor, I tested it before I reassembled it. I did the the jumper to the wrong side of the pot and discovered the EQ was still operating in parallel, with sound still remaining after EQ zeroing. So I reversed the jump to the other leg of the pot and Bingo! Then reassembled the chassis back into the head.
The only person who possibly might have a pic that I can think of would be djw. He did pics of the 1st Reeder mod.
The only person who possibly might have a pic that I can think of would be djw. He did pics of the 1st Reeder mod.
djw
Well-known member
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm being delinquent on this. I should finish that damned sticky post.
I actually didn't take any pictures of this, since it was (I thought) such a rudimentary mod... but basically if you open your amp up and look straight down from the top (as you face the controls), you'll see that each pot has 3 terminals. On each midrange pot, the center and right terminals are connected to wires that lead to the printed circuit board. The left terminal is not connected to anything.
The mod consists of connecting a very short wire between the left and center terminals on the midrange pot(s). The center terminal's connection to the PCB remains intact; you're just adding a connection from the center terminal to the left one. The wire literally only needs to be a centimeter or less in length.
In his infinite wisdom, my amp tech claims this mod should actually do nothing. However, those of us here who have done it can hear at least a subtle difference. I actually just this week decided to undo this mod on Ch1, leaving it on Ch2... I agree with plan-x and those who feel the mod is most effective and appropriate on Ch2. So I just opened it up and clipped the wire, right there top and center. Mod undone.
I actually didn't take any pictures of this, since it was (I thought) such a rudimentary mod... but basically if you open your amp up and look straight down from the top (as you face the controls), you'll see that each pot has 3 terminals. On each midrange pot, the center and right terminals are connected to wires that lead to the printed circuit board. The left terminal is not connected to anything.
The mod consists of connecting a very short wire between the left and center terminals on the midrange pot(s). The center terminal's connection to the PCB remains intact; you're just adding a connection from the center terminal to the left one. The wire literally only needs to be a centimeter or less in length.
In his infinite wisdom, my amp tech claims this mod should actually do nothing. However, those of us here who have done it can hear at least a subtle difference. I actually just this week decided to undo this mod on Ch1, leaving it on Ch2... I agree with plan-x and those who feel the mod is most effective and appropriate on Ch2. So I just opened it up and clipped the wire, right there top and center. Mod undone.
PilotSSW
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I did the first reeder mod and I decided to wait and see if I liked it better, so far I've found its alot more open sounding, but the top end is still too gritty for me. Has anyone done the mid mod, but put the gain and master pots back to their original positions and heard the sound ? I love having two identical channels, but Im thinking that the stock sound may need to be reevaluated with this mid mod, I think the stock setup deserves a second listen with this mid mod on it.
Anyone using the stock pot placement and the mid mod ?
Anyone using the stock pot placement and the mid mod ?
Tried the mid-mod for a while & it *does* seem to tighten the low end a bit but it also seemed to detract from the open, 3d effect that the pot-swap mod had. i didn't really notice this until i had the chance to turn it up in a band setting. While i was inside removing my little jumper wire i noticed something odd: the bass tone pots are smaller than the others. Anyone else notice this? The part numbers appear to be the same as those on the larger pots though.
PilotSSW
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Thats pretty interesting boogieman, I was just going back through these forums again after however long its been. I ended up undoing both mods and last night just for the hell of it (after being fed up with the bass again) i remodded it and with the new pickups I had bought for my strat, this amp just now cooks.
But you know the one thing I never saw anyone post on this page was to work with the gain knobs. Everyone said moving the treble around changes gain structure.
Well what I was doing before the mod worked pretty well, I'd keep the gain knobs really low, like 9 - 11 o'clock somewhere and keep the masters around noon and have the drive on the 2nd channel around 2 -3 o'clock. With a boost pedal I could get very convincing rectifier tones and it was far more versatile. I had clarity galore with the right EQ settings and this was before the mods. Now with the mods its even easier to get what Im looking for.
Keep those gain knobs back and boost the masters a bit for less Bass !!!
But you know the one thing I never saw anyone post on this page was to work with the gain knobs. Everyone said moving the treble around changes gain structure.
Well what I was doing before the mod worked pretty well, I'd keep the gain knobs really low, like 9 - 11 o'clock somewhere and keep the masters around noon and have the drive on the 2nd channel around 2 -3 o'clock. With a boost pedal I could get very convincing rectifier tones and it was far more versatile. I had clarity galore with the right EQ settings and this was before the mods. Now with the mods its even easier to get what Im looking for.
Keep those gain knobs back and boost the masters a bit for less Bass !!!
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Subject: 'Flabby/Muddy' Bass on the Lonestar? Want to change it?
Charles-
Thanks for posting this information! I came across this thread recently and, although its quite long now, wanted to ask a related question. I have a Mesa Maverick, which has a similar "to much bass" problem to my ears as the Lonestar, but only in the lead channel. I had noticed a while ago that on the Mavs clean channel, turning all the tone controls to zero muted the amp. On the lead side, turning them all down did not. The Mav has a fantastic clean channel IMO.
So this leads me to believe I could attempt this simple mod to the Maverick as well. I was wondering if you had any insight into this.
I plan to open up the amp (being safe of course) and compare the two midrange pots on each channel. I suspect I'll see a jumper on the clean channel mid, and no jumper on the dirty channel mid. The Mav has a Bright/Fat switch that I always leave on Bright - I might try a SPST switch for this mod and mount it in the BB/F switch's place (and just tape and wire-tie off the B/F switch inside the chassis).
I'll report back on how it goes. This may be interesting, as I've read many times that the Maverick is a direct ancestor of the Lonestar design, although I'm not sure how true that is.
-Clay
Charles Reeder said:
Charles-
Thanks for posting this information! I came across this thread recently and, although its quite long now, wanted to ask a related question. I have a Mesa Maverick, which has a similar "to much bass" problem to my ears as the Lonestar, but only in the lead channel. I had noticed a while ago that on the Mavs clean channel, turning all the tone controls to zero muted the amp. On the lead side, turning them all down did not. The Mav has a fantastic clean channel IMO.
So this leads me to believe I could attempt this simple mod to the Maverick as well. I was wondering if you had any insight into this.
I plan to open up the amp (being safe of course) and compare the two midrange pots on each channel. I suspect I'll see a jumper on the clean channel mid, and no jumper on the dirty channel mid. The Mav has a Bright/Fat switch that I always leave on Bright - I might try a SPST switch for this mod and mount it in the BB/F switch's place (and just tape and wire-tie off the B/F switch inside the chassis).
I'll report back on how it goes. This may be interesting, as I've read many times that the Maverick is a direct ancestor of the Lonestar design, although I'm not sure how true that is.
-Clay
Charles Reeder
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Alas: I have no experience with the Maverick Amps. From what I've read about them; they do sound like excellent amps which would be right 'up-my-tone-alley', though.
You could try:
A. The jumper on the lead channel mid pot
B. Checkout my posting about the 'pot-swap' on the gain and master control pots on channel-2 of the Lonestar. It seems that Mesa publishes part numbers in the amp manuals of all the pots used in their amps. I discovered that Channel-1 and Channel-2 of the Lonestar used the same pots BUT in reverse positions. The Part Number of Gain on Channel-1 was the Part Number of the Master on Channel-2...AND...The Part Number of the Master on channel-1 was the Gain Number on Channel-2! So, I simply swapped positions of the Gain and Master pots on channel-2. This also helped the midrange/bass on Channel-2.
So, check out the Maverick manual and see if this sort of swap might hold promise. It might also be that the pots on channel-2 have completely different numbers tghan those used on Channel-1. In that case; ordereing a set of Channel-1 Pots...and installing on Channel-2 might help.
C. You might consider adding a 'bright-switch' to channl-2...using a switch (much like the fat/bright swith you encountered on Channel-1)...duplicating the value(s) of the Channel-1 bright switch.
Sorry I couldn't provide more concrete recommendations. Best of luck on your tone-quest!
Charles
You could try:
A. The jumper on the lead channel mid pot
B. Checkout my posting about the 'pot-swap' on the gain and master control pots on channel-2 of the Lonestar. It seems that Mesa publishes part numbers in the amp manuals of all the pots used in their amps. I discovered that Channel-1 and Channel-2 of the Lonestar used the same pots BUT in reverse positions. The Part Number of Gain on Channel-1 was the Part Number of the Master on Channel-2...AND...The Part Number of the Master on channel-1 was the Gain Number on Channel-2! So, I simply swapped positions of the Gain and Master pots on channel-2. This also helped the midrange/bass on Channel-2.
So, check out the Maverick manual and see if this sort of swap might hold promise. It might also be that the pots on channel-2 have completely different numbers tghan those used on Channel-1. In that case; ordereing a set of Channel-1 Pots...and installing on Channel-2 might help.
C. You might consider adding a 'bright-switch' to channl-2...using a switch (much like the fat/bright swith you encountered on Channel-1)...duplicating the value(s) of the Channel-1 bright switch.
Sorry I couldn't provide more concrete recommendations. Best of luck on your tone-quest!
Charles
What tubes and speaker/s are you using with your Maverick?
I have the 1x12 version with an extension cab. Too much bass is not something I have ever thought about the Maverick. If anything, the 1x12 is a bit thin to my ears.
The best thing you can do for a Mav is to change out the crappy Xicon tone stack capacitors with some Orange Drops and a Silver Mica treble cap. This really helps the amp breathe better.
It's also incredibly easy to change the tone in the Mav just by swapping tubes around. I forget what I have in the lead channel, but my clean channel is all NOS and the amp just sings now!
I have the 1x12 version with an extension cab. Too much bass is not something I have ever thought about the Maverick. If anything, the 1x12 is a bit thin to my ears.
The best thing you can do for a Mav is to change out the crappy Xicon tone stack capacitors with some Orange Drops and a Silver Mica treble cap. This really helps the amp breathe better.
It's also incredibly easy to change the tone in the Mav just by swapping tubes around. I forget what I have in the lead channel, but my clean channel is all NOS and the amp just sings now!
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