First time playing with a full band at volume - too bright!

[MusicManJP6]

Well, I finally got a chance to jam with some friends at volume and I was more than disappointed with my tones. Everything was so bright and the attack was very harsh. To be honest, I don't play very loud at home so I'm not used to hearing the amp cranked. I tried tweaking my tones while at volume and even with treble and presence turned way down it was still just so damn bright.

Could a tube swap, speaker swap, or cab change help?? Maybe I should have switched to 4 ohm...

 

[screamingdaisy]

Modes/settings?

(a pic is worth a thousand words in this scenario)

 

[Bullen]

I´ve also noticed that the amp can be very bright at higher volumes. I remember the first time I cranked it up a bit at home and it was harsh and the high end hurt my ears. Especially the IIC+ mode, I remember that the IV mode sounded better to me. I played it through my old 2x12 recto cab.

I´ve been keeping my V at home for a long time and played it at pretty low volumes, at which the amp sounds great. Just recently I started to play in a band again and I took the V to a rehearsal, and now the amp sounded great at high volumes, big and fat with a nice high end that was articulate but never harsh. I do use my traditional recto 4x12 cab with the band and that made a lot of difference. I´ve also changed the V1 tube to a Ruby (JJ) HG+ 12ax7, which did make the amp a bit darker overall. And I recently bought some new Mesa 440 6L6 powertubes which made the amp thump a bit more.

I have not really changed my settings, but I do turn the bright off at higher volumes. My ch 2 (crunch) and lead ch (IIC+ or IV) settings are pretty close to what Petrucci uses in the Mark V demos he did for Mesa. My clean sound is warmer than his as I use less presence.
My band played a gig about two weeks ago and the amp sounded really great on stage, big, warm and powerful. Best tone I´ve ever had live.

So for me the remedy was: 4x12 cab, Ruby HG+ in V1, new powertubes and turn the bright switch off on the lead modes.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Thanks, Bullen! I was afraid you might say 4x12. Haha. I'll try some different tubes first. I was trying to NOT get into swapping tubes again, but the JJ Mesas seem to be a little harsh.

screamingdaisy: I was using crunch and mark iv modes, but it didn't seem like changing my settings made much of a difference. I was fighting the inherent tone of the amp! I had the GEQ on for Ch3 with last three sliders going from bottom line, between bottom and middle, and the last one flat. The lower two are bumped up for more low end. started at 45w for all channels and ended up switching to 90w - slightly better but still very bright.

Mark I was the only mode that sounded really good.

 

[screamingdaisy]

screamingdaisy: I was using crunch and mark iv modes, but it didn't seem like changing my settings made much of a difference. I was fighting the inherent tone of the amp! I had the GEQ on for Ch3 with last three sliders going from bottom line, between bottom and middle, and the last one flat. The lower two are bumped up for more low end. started at 45w for all channels and ended up switching to 90w - slightly better but still very bright.

It may be the single V30? I'm not really sure as I've never used it in that configuration. With a band I've used it with a single C90 (Widebody Ported 1x12) and two V30s (Recto 2x12) and in both cases it's worked extremely well. The Recto 2x12 is a bit darker/smoother than the C90 Ported.

One thing I've been doing lately is dialling back the treble/presence pretty significantly. I used to have settings that started off as a modified version of what Petrucci had on his website, but they weren't right for me. After studying various other Mark users rigs I noticed that Hetfield had his treble/presence pulled back. I did it myself and it worked great. Then Mesa posted their demo vids and I noticed that the rock tones had the treble/presence pulled back even further with the bright switch off... and that worked really well for rock... thicker and meaner sounding IMO.

The only channel I run the EQ with is channel 3. Doing this made it much easier to balance channels 2 and 3. Channel 2 with the EQ on always sounded more powerful than channel 3... but with no extra EQ on channel 2 they balance perfect.

For my EQ I still run a V, but I reverse the 6600 and 2200 sliders. Increasing the 2200 slider gives me punch and some detail while dropping the 6600 slider decreases the fizz.

I'll post a pic of my settings since it'll probably make more sense than that pile of crap I wrote above. The settings are what I'm using for rock and they work great with an OD for when I need a little more edge. For metal I switch channel 3 from triode to pentode, up the gain a bit and bring the mid knob up to around 9:00.

The settings aren't nearly as scooped as they look. The mid knob seems to control how stiff/spongy the amp rather than controlling how much midrange is present in the final product. For rock I like a little more give.. for metal I like it a little stiffer.

 

[boogieman60]

Have you tried simply rolling off the treble on your Guitar??? Does it have single coils??? With My les Paul which are not known to be a bright guitar I run my tone knob at 7. My V is nice and round..I don't have those really harsh sounds..It's all stock. also try turning the EQ off and setting the chans. up that way and then adding the EQ after. If you have extreme settings on your Sliders nothing in the reg. tone knobs will overcome the brightness you are experiancing.

 

[hazbin]

This is one of the reasons I prefer my mark IV over the V for live playing.

 

[Cron]

This is one of the reasons I prefer my mark IV over the V for live playing.

Im curious, have you run both at gig volume with the same-ish tubes?
Thoughts?

 

[Scary]

I've heard the Axe FX 2 is now available. =P

 

[MusicManJP6]

Hey guys, just an update: Ended up going back over to my friends' house and plugging up as I did a few nights before. It was not as bright as I recalled, but the harsh/super punchy attack was still there at volume. After A/Bing my cab with his 2x12 recto vertical cab it was obvious the cab was to blame for what I was not liking in my tone. I actually found a Recto 2x12 locally and I'm picking it up tomorrow night. Can't wait!

So, the 3/4 back sounds better with the Mark V at low to moderate volumes, but if you crank it too much it starts acting funny. And, it could very well just be the speaker, but I really like the tone of the Recto 2x12 vert cab.

 

[Bullen]

This is one of the reasons I prefer my mark IV over the V for live playing.

I don´t know...
My IV and IV sounds pretty much the same at higher volumes with my 4x12 cab.
I mean, the don´t sound identical, but the V doesn´t seem that much brighter to me at volume.
And the overall voicing is very similar to me.

 

[BostonRedSox]

Hey guys, just an update: Ended up going back over to my friends' house and plugging up as I did a few nights before. It was not as bright as I recalled, but the harsh/super punchy attack was still there at volume. After A/Bing my cab with his 2x12 recto vertical cab it was obvious the cab was to blame for what I was not liking in my tone. I actually found a Recto 2x12 locally and I'm picking it up tomorrow night. Can't wait!

So, the 3/4 back sounds better with the Mark V at low to moderate volumes, but if you crank it too much it starts acting funny. And, it could very well just be the speaker, but I really like the tone of the Recto 2x12 vert cab.

If you want spongy, you may have to look into a Recto. Your comments about "punch" seem about right for a Mark IV and V. They are quite the punchy amps. Some people enjoy this in the mix and at louder volumes, some prefer some more sag and compression.

 

[ned]

When your playing with a full band you actually need more mids, scooped tone usually doesn't work well with a band.

 

[SteveO]

When your playing with a full band you actually need more mids, scooped tone usually doesn't work well with a band.

Yup. More mids, less gain. What sounds great alone disappears with a band, and what works with a band doesn't sound as good on its own.

 

[Geiri]

Hey music man

Stay away from celestion v 30's with the V. Í have a mk IV combo and a 4x12 recto cab and the recto cab seems to exaggerate the high frequencies to much IMHO.

The evl in the combo sounds much warmer and in some way more brutal to my ears. Try if you can to play through a marshall 1960 cab. They are warmer to my ears than a recto cab and a hell of alot cheaper.

Cheers

 

[MusicManJP6]

Hey music man

Stay away from celestion v 30's with the V. Í have a mk IV combo and a 4x12 recto cab and the recto cab seems to exaggerate the high frequencies to much IMHO.

The evl in the combo sounds much warmer and in some way more brutal to my ears. Try if you can to play through a marshall 1960 cab. They are warmer to my ears than a recto cab and a hell of alot cheaper.

Cheers

Hey Geiri, thanks for the tip. I actually prefer V30s with the V. This cab sounds much warmer/darker than my 3/4 back ever did so I'm very happy! I've not cranked it yet, but I'm sure it will sound just as good as my friend's which I did crank extensively. Broken in speakers seem to be a big factor.

 

[MesaGod666]

JUST SCOOP ALL OF YOUR MIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

Actually, I highly recommend using a Palmer PGA-04 or Palmer PDI-03 for live stuff.

 

[hazbin]

This is one of the reasons I prefer my mark IV over the V for live playing.

Im curious, have you run both at gig volume with the same-ish tubes?
Thoughts?

Well, actually no. I have replaced the pre amp tubes only in my Mark 5, still has the stock power tubes. I do run STR 420 power tubes in my Mark IV and Satellite. Think I will put some 420's in the Mark V and crank it up!!!
Overall the Mark V is a very good amp, wide range, versatile, just not a HEAVY (IMO) as my Mark IV.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Had another jam session today and NO COMPLAINTS WHATSOEVER about my Tone. It was truly perfect in every way! Cab makes such a huge difference and I definitely made the right choice to ditch the 3/4 back 1x12. Great cab, but my tone tastes have changed over the years and my ears like closed back tones much more these days. Highly recommend the Recto 2x12 vertical slant cab!