feeling like giving up on my dual rec for its tone

[tempest1226]

Hi everyone. Somewhat new to the forum so HOWDYYY. I have tried for months now to get a good tone out of my dual rec and i cant get it at all. Ive done everything ive been told all over forums to get a good tone except retube the **** thing and it just sounds mushy to me. no clarity in the chops like i hear on a lot of clips in this forum. And the leads are to harsh sounding. I dont know. I know this is probally the wrong way to look at it but i played a 6505 and i got instant tone that amazed me. Really cut through bottom end with compressed leads so they werent so harsh sounding. And people told me that the dual rec has everything double that the 6505 has and ive been giving time but its like unless you play classic rock and want to drop the gain back to 10:00 then the dual rec isnt cutting it. Even with the bass dropped to 0 and the cabs are away from walls its so boomy and mushy. The only thing keeping me going with this head is that i feel like with all the rep this head has and basically everyone using them metal, rock, progressive, i feel like it should work. I want it to work. Im into music like bullet for my valentine, dream theater, tool, breaking benjamin just to give you an idea of what im looking for. take care and if you got through this thanx.

 

[Russ]

Sounds like you need a retube.

 

[jbird]

Well, put it this way: You may as well re-tube the thing, that way, if your still not happy with it, you can sell it, knowing fresh tubes have been installed for the next owner! :wink:

 

[tempest1226]

hahah yea true that. But what makes me think it may not be the tubes is the fact that i have two dual rectifiers, one i bought, and one that was given to me (o yeaaaaaaaaa)hahaha. And they both have the same problem. I dont know if its a settings. Also, should i have it switched to the el34 or 6l6 onthe bias switch in the back.

 

[Russ]

Your 6L6/EL-34 switch should match the tubes you have in it. It might just be the way you have your amps dialed in. Check out some other settings.

 

[tempest1226]

man you have no idea. I used every setting that is posted inthe amp settings section in grailtone and experimented for hours and hours on my own dialings. I dont know if its tubes or what.

 

[Rocky]

It could be EQ....easy to rectify that. If you already havent done so try to turn down the gain and bass settings. Add some mids.


Like others mentioned you may just need new tubes.

 

[Russ]

I was rereading your inital post. If you like Dream Theater you might like the Mark Series better. You should be able to get Tool tones from your Rec though. What cabinet are you using?

 

[jtb226]

sounds like a retube problem. make sure you have the bias selector switch set right (look at what tubes you have in it and post them here). also, you probably already did this, but make sure you turn the treble and presence down. those are both really sensitive controls. have you tried any of the other modes besides modern? have you tried spongy power? have you tried the tube rectifiers? a little more info would be helpful.

 

[Elpelotero]

Since I don't know how much experience you have, nor what people in other forums have told you (and this is THE Boogie forum, we know best! lol), I'll give you a list of my personal suggestions and those I have gathered from other users here in the past who may not have a chance to chime in...

-Retube! lol. But when you retube, go for quality stuff. You'll want to get Mesa 5u4g rectifier tubes (which are the same as other brand's GZ34). These tubes are much tighter and instantly take away a lot of sagging mush that the stock 5u4gb mesa rectifier tubes have. For power tubes, I recommend str420's if you go through Mesa. If not, groove tubes work well too. JJ tubes have great gain, but can be kind of mushy if I recall from other people's experiences. For preamp, I'm not too familiar, but again stay clear of JJ. People here seem to like Tung Sol. For me, any ol' Mesa 12ax7 is fine.

-Get an overdrive pedal, such as a Maxon OD8. These little pedals clear up the bottom end a lot and allow the rectifier to pull off tight riffs (I think Bullet for My Valentine uses something like this).

-Try out a graphic EQ pedal. It'll allow you to dial in/out frequencies you dislike/like. You can also try running the bass knob low on the amp and then boosting it back in with the EQ pedal.

-As far as settings are concerned, always start with everything flat! As in the 12 oclock position, facing straight up. This is the sweet spot for every Rectifier. Your final settings really shouldn't veer too much off of this flat position. Rectifiers are not like Marshalls where you can turn everything up to 10 and expect it to sound good. Each knob is greatly affected by the others. Think of it this way: Bass=tightness/mushiness. Mids=stiffness/liquidy and clarity. Treble=attack. Presence=brightness and clarity.

-Cables, guitar, etc all make a big influence...You're only as strong as your rig's weakest link. But generally speaking, a crappy cable won't make an amp unusable to the point where you can't get good sounds. A quality cable is something you invest in if you think you're almost there.

-Mesas are meant to be cranked loud!! To get power tube saturation on a Mesa without killing your ears and windows, the general recommendation is to crank the Overall volume (you need to engage the efx loop to do this) and then slowly bring in the channel master volume. A sample setting would be Overall volume at 11:00 and channel at 9:30.

-Finally, what cabinet do you play through and what year is your amp?

 

[tempest1226]

wow. i really appreciate all the response. This must be the fastest response forum ive ever been too. SOLDDD. haha. but anyways. Let me clarify settings and all that good stuff.

Mesa boogie dual rectifier. Purchased in 2005 so must be a newer model. Mesa boogie oversized 4x12. Settings Bass: 8:00, Mids: 1-2:00, Treble 12:00, Presence: almost off, FX loop on, master volume around 12:00, and Output volume around 12-1:00 (BLASTING). But have also experimented with the master way up and the output down and the output way up with the master down. Using a zakk wylde overdrive which does tighten up the tone alot but doesnt change the non smoothness/harshness (for lack of better words). It is set on the 6L6 bias setting which is what there is 4 of in the back as well as the stock 5u4g rectifier tubes that come with them. As far as the preamp tubes im not quite sure how to get to them to see if there still ok (SO please let me know how to do that) But im sure they are the 12ax7s. I find myself leaning more towards the orange channel modern with diode and bold selected.

 

[tempest1226]

hey i just forgot that i had mesa 6L6's (4 of them brand new) that they gave me when i bough the dual rec. How do i know though when and what tubes are bad whether its the 2 rectifier tubes, the 4 power tubes or the 5 preamp tubes and how do i check? thanks again

 

[siggy14]

Honestly, get rid of the oversized cab, they are woofier then traditionals. Get a Tung Sol in the V1 posistion.

wow. i really appreciate all the response. This must be the fastest response forum ive ever been too. SOLDDD. haha. but anyways. Let me clarify settings and all that good stuff.

Mesa boogie dual rectifier. Purchased in 2005 so must be a newer model. Mesa boogie oversized 4x12. Settings Bass: 8:00, Mids: 1-2:00, Treble 12:00, Presence: almost off, FX loop on, master volume around 12:00, and Output volume around 12-1:00 (BLASTING). But have also experimented with the master way up and the output down and the output way up with the master down. Using a zakk wylde overdrive which does tighten up the tone alot but doesnt change the non smoothness/harshness (for lack of better words). It is set on the 6L6 bias setting which is what there is 4 of in the back as well as the stock 5u4g rectifier tubes that come with them. As far as the preamp tubes im not quite sure how to get to them to see if there still ok (SO please let me know how to do that) But im sure they are the 12ax7s. I find myself leaning more towards the orange channel modern with diode and bold selected.

 

[jbird]

Bass & presence off? Mids @ 1-2! :?

I used to like: Bass=noon, mids & presence=10:30, treble=13:30, gain=14:00! Something like that.

 

[Russ]

Honestly, get rid of the oversized cab, they are woofier then traditionals. Get a Tung Sol in the V1 posistion.

+1 That would be a big improvement alone.

 

[tempest1226]

**** i tried bass at noon. EXTREMLEY WAY TOO BASSY. im going to have to take everyones advice on the retube though. Question is. Who to listen too. Everyone says different things. haha.

 

[siggy14]

A retube is always good, get a hold of JJ tubes and tell him you want a hotter bias.

Second, get a traditional cab or a marshall cab or something. The mesa oversized cabs are way to woofy.

Third, us a good overdrive in front.

**** i tried bass at noon. EXTREMLEY WAY TOO BASSY. im going to have to take everyones advice on the retube though. Question is. Who to listen too. Everyone says different things. haha.

 

[broknstuff]

Once thing i've noticed is that say during sound check or by myself I find things in the sound that I don't like. I find maybe a bit too buzzy on leads, sometimes I feel the v-30's are adding an upper mid peak, and that the bass is not tight enough. Then when I lower the bass to tighten it, I find myself wanting a bit more bass, but I just want it to be tighter....But then, when I start playing with the whole band, I forget about most of this and it all sounds pretty good actually. Granted, maybe it's the ear plugs after a while, but once I'm mid song I completely forget that I wasn't completely satisfied how it sounded by itself. Maybe these amps just sound better in the band than by themselves?

When I get back home I am going to retube mine though, it definitely needs it, and can tell that the sound has gotten worse than it was when I first had it. Guitars though and pickups may be something to look into also. I have an ibanez prestige S, thing mahogany body, that I think sounds a lot better through it than my cheaper ibanez 320.

I'm kind of surprised because on record these things seem to sound so much tighter, and I've heard of using an OD in front of it, which I may try, but I keep on getting the feeling that I should be able to do it without any of that. Oh, like they said, volume is clutch to this, so I only use it with the band/practicing. As the volume goes up, the buzziness starts to reduce dramatically. Oh for leads, I don't know if these things are easy to get some nice smooth leads out of them without an OD pedal and/or eq...some delay that may take off a bit of the highs might help smooth it out though. You can get a pretty aggressive lead tone that I've liked in a band setting, but that by itself doesn't sound that great. Maybe this beast just sounds better in a band than out?

 

[Elpelotero]

if you're running bass at 8:00 and an overdrive in front of it, it's time to ditch the rectifier and get a mark4. simple as that...don't waste time struggling to find a sound with the recto for the next few months.