f-50 question

[doctornads]

Is it me or is the f-50 louder then a dual rec. ( which i own) I Went to guitar center the other day and plugged into a f-50 and it seemed aloooooot louder. Like imagine the volume being all the way down and then moving it up maybe a centimeter or 2. And that was LOUD. Any one else think this. And also I would have bought it if it wasnt soo loud. I LOVE how it sounds. Would i THD hotplate make a signifficant difference in volume withought taking away from the tone?

 

[Guitarzan]

Not at all... Once you have a DR set up right, you'll remember the experience.

 

[ashjn]

The F-Series are loud amps.

I don't have personal experience with the Hotplate, but looked into it for myself. Most people said that since the F-Series get most of their tone from preamp distortion, a hotplate wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Platypus]

I didn't really think it had more volume, perhaps it is the way it was set up. The DR has 100 watts of headroom to burn.. it's LOUD as piss if you want it to be.

To answer your question, anytime you use an attenuator you're making a compromise. These amps were meant for the stage plain and simple. If you want to manage bedroom levels with them you're going to have to sacrafice some tone to do that. The more resistance you use on the attenuator, the worse the tone suck will be.

That being said, I use mine constantly on my Dual Rec at a reasonable level (-8dB) and I think it sounds awesome. You won't get the pure unbridled tone of the amp with one but you can't have your cake and eat it too.... there is NO replacement for volume, too many variables with SPI, speakers moving, etc. That is where you're losing tone because you're simply not moving air.

It's a compromise I'm willing to make to get the cranked power tube saturation I'm after at reasonable levels.

 

[doctornads]

I own a dual rec. now and I notice a big difference in volume. I dont mean louder as in max volume. I mean comparing the posision of the volume knob on the f-50 to the same position on my mesa, the f-50 was louder. Would playing the f-50 on a big open room have anythign to do with it? The f-50 comes with 4 powet tubes right. What would happen if i took out 2 of them?

 

[Platypus]

I own a dual rec. now and I notice a big difference in volume. Would playing the f-50 on a big open room have anythign to do with it? The f-50 comes with 4 powet tubes right. What would happen if i took out 2 of them?

Hmmm, are you using the output control on your DR or just channel volumes? The F50 comes with only two power tubes in class a/b so you can't remove any of them.

Perhaps it was the big open room, sound is very different when it has room to bounce and reflect off things.. ie if you play your amp in a tiny room with the same settings as a huge room it will sound totally different.

 

[doctornads]

No im bypassing the loop so the master volume doesnt work. Only the channel volume. I thought it had 4 tubes. I wasnt sure one of the f- series does. no? i guess the 100? Ya. it was out on display in the main guitar center room. It wasnt in like a little private room or anythign so i guess i will try that next weekend.

 

[Platypus]

No im bypassing the loop so the master volume doesnt work. Only the channel volume. I thought it had 4 tubes. I wasnt sure one of the f- series does. no? i guess the 100? Ya. it was out on display in the main guitar center room. It wasnt in like a little private room or anythign so i guess i will try that next weekend.

That may be the volume difference right there, the output control on the DR when not bypassed makes that puppy LOUD.

And you're correct, the F100 has 4 tubes, the F50 has two.

 

[doctornads]

Really I think its louder when it is bypassed. For knob position of course. lol O well i guess the only thing to do is go try it in a private room and mess around with it.

 

[alpepiman]

The Rec is definitely louder. However, the F-50 at like 8:00 is louder than a Rec at 8:00. The F-50 gets louder quicker on the knob position, but the Dual Rec will be louder in the end. I tried to explain that the best I could. If you've ever tried a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, it is the same way as far as volume goes.

 

[doctornads]

No I never played one. I know that the dual would be louder in the end but i didnt know the f-50 would get louder faster.

 

[cliff hetfield]

i have an f 50 head. ill say that it is a loud amp, but i played it in a very large room and had to crank it up to keep up with my other guitARISTS TRIPLE REC and a bass amp. i still felt slightly underpowered.
but in a garage or a small bar its plenty loud.

 

[hal9000]

i have an f 50 head. ill say that it is a loud amp, but i played it in a very large room and had to crank it up to keep up with my other guitARISTS TRIPLE REC and a bass amp. i still felt slightly underpowered.
but in a garage or a small bar its plenty loud.

I hope you had headphones.

 

[boogiemon]

might be time for a new set of power tubes.

 

[cliff hetfield]

i have an f 50 head. ill say that it is a loud amp, but i played it in a very large room and had to crank it up to keep up with my other guitARISTS TRIPLE REC and a bass amp. i still felt slightly underpowered.
but in a garage or a small bar its plenty loud.

I hope you had headphones.

well, it wasnt cranked all the way, but it was up around 12 on the master on the distortion channel. and i know everyone says it should sound better when turned up, but it sounded harsher to me. there wasnt a noticeable improvement in tone at that higher level.

 

[cliff hetfield]

might be time for a new set of power tubes.

ive had the amp for about 2 years. i use it no more than 2x a week. although i keep the clean channel's master cranked way up. and my band uses cleans in almost every song. could that speed up the lifespan of the tubes?

 

[hal9000]

i have an f 50 head. ill say that it is a loud amp, but i played it in a very large room and had to crank it up to keep up with my other guitARISTS TRIPLE REC and a bass amp. i still felt slightly underpowered.
but in a garage or a small bar its plenty loud.

I hope you had headphones.

well, it wasnt cranked all the way, but it was up around 12 on the master on the distortion channel. and i know everyone says it should sound better when turned up, but it sounded harsher to me. there wasnt a noticeable improvement in tone at that higher level.

Actually, 12:00 on the master with the gain up to around 12:00 is roughly the highest volume you'll get. After that, you'll just get more power tube and phase inverter saturation.

Part of the problem with playing that loud is that your ears are more sensitive to treble, so harsh is par for the territory. Most drummer's cymbals will easily make your ear distort too.

 

[Micah]

The F50 is not a "Louder" amp its just a brighter voiced amp :wink:
Wattage has very little to do with volume--a litlle, but not much. Wattage is purely power. Its like buying the V8 instead of the V6 in a truck. Is it faster? Probably not by much, but it will get to the same speed quicker. The 8 is more powerfull and over all it feels better to drive than the 6 and it will push more load easier (more speakers). :wink:

 

[plumptone]

I have to chime in on this thread. I can't comment on the original question, but I have a couple of F-50 observations. I picked mine up this July after waiting over 3 months for the custom build (wood & wicker). The reason I got the amp was to avoid having to haul my old DC-3 plus 2x12 to gigs in order to be heard. I play tested the F-50 at the GC, and felt it would handle most of my gigs no problem in the volume department.

I was wrong. The amp is bone crunching loud on channel 2, but channel 1 is barely (if at all) louder than my DC-3, which is rated at 35 watts, so I still have to use the 2x12 for most of the rooms we play. The observations made by others are spot-on: the taper of the output volume on this amp is WAY different from most Mesa's I've played. It comes on strong VERY quickly. But once you get mast the half way point on the channel masters all you're doing is adding output tube saturation to your sound, which to my ears is perceived as a slightly more clipped and compressed sound. And it does get a tad bright. However, you'd be hard pressed in most situations to get past 10 or 11 o;clock on the drive channel even without the contour engaged. It is ridiculously loud. Having said that, I do feel that to get the most out of the drive channle you should be at or close to 9 o'clock. The difference between 8 and 9 is huge, and the difference between 8 and 10 is monstrous.

It's a great amp, but I'm a little disappointed that it seems to run out of headroom in the clean channel as early as it does.

That is all.