Express VS. DC?

[wizard333]

I have a DC-3 and its one of the only Mesa amps I've ever liked and I've owned and sold a few, played through many more at length.

The thing I like is the versatility and the midrange......no ultra scooped V tone there (unless you want it, which I do not).

Been thinking about another and I am wondering.....how do the Express amps compare? The lack of the GEQ gives me pause. How are the cleans and gains in comparison? Versatility? Are the mids the more std. Mesa scooped or present like in a DC? I don't need as much gain as apparently some people do; usually my drive channel gain knob is between 2 and 3 and never goes above 4.5 on the DC.

Not sure if I should look at the Express series or just get a DC-5.

Pretty much limitted the choices to those as my reactions to the other models were: I checked out the Lonestar Classic a few years ago and while the clean channel was great, I didnt like the gain channel much as the bass had to be basically at 0 to not phart out, like when you crank a vintage Fender. Not enough versatility on tweakability at that point. Also way too big/heavy. Didnt care much for the Lonestar Special's tone clean, and the gain was......just ok. Rectifiers struck me as far too scooped and thin, or too muddy if you dial the thin out of them. Stilleto seemed to miss the mark completely as a "British" toned amp. Nothing Brit at all about it to my ear, and I've owned quite a few real Brit amps.

Any info would be helpful; thanks!

 

[kekam35]

http://www.mesaboogie.com/demo/ExpressDemo150.html

 

[GD_NC]

I've had a DC-3 and currently have a DC-2. A buddy I jam with from time to time has a 5:50 2x12 that I've played around with quite a bit. Although it's probably more appropriate to compare the DC 2/3 to a 5:25, I've never had the chance to do that.

It's really a matter of taste if you ask me. The 5:50 is far more versatile but never seems to get quite a nasty as the DC. If you like bold boomy cleans and gentle blues like breakup, the 5:50 is far better than the DC-3. The Express also has a much better tonal range. DC-2/3's seem to be very mid focused and lack some Bass. (Some of that may be due to the speaker differences as much as the amp)

On the other hand, if you like metal with tons of mids, tight compression, and often use a"V" eq a great deal you might have a hard time getting that sound from the Express. The Express just doesn't seem to have as much lead drive as a DC.

So my recommendation: Get a Mark IV :mrgreen:

Kidding. From your description you will probably really like the 5:50.

 

[edward]

I have a DC-3 and its one of the only Mesa amps I've ever liked and I've owned and sold a few, played through many more at length.

The thing I like is the versatility and the midrange......no ultra scooped V tone there (unless you want it, which I do not).

Been thinking about another and I am wondering.....how do the Express amps compare? The lack of the GEQ gives me pause. How are the cleans and gains in comparison? Versatility? Are the mids the more std. Mesa scooped or present like in a DC? I don't need as much gain as apparently some people do; usually my drive channel gain knob is between 2 and 3 and never goes above 4.5 on the DC.

Not sure if I should look at the Express series or just get a DC-5.

Pretty much limitted the choices to those as my reactions to the other models were: I checked out the Lonestar Classic a few years ago and while the clean channel was great, I didnt like the gain channel much as the bass had to be basically at 0 to not phart out, like when you crank a vintage Fender. Not enough versatility on tweakability at that point. Also way too big/heavy. Didnt care much for the Lonestar Special's tone clean, and the gain was......just ok. Rectifiers struck me as far too scooped and thin, or too muddy if you dial the thin out of them. Stilleto seemed to miss the mark completely as a "British" toned amp. Nothing Brit at all about it to my ear, and I've owned quite a few real Brit amps.

Any info would be helpful; thanks!

Sorry, but this just may be of absolutely no help: own both.

Yup, no joke. The DC5 (and DC10) and the Express (particularly the 525, but also applies to the 550) are significantly different animals. FWIW, I am a die-hard DC5 owner for over a decade and it has been my go-to practice and live amp without pause. I've had other Mesas and Fenders go in/out of my possession, but the DC5 always stayed, and will continue to stay with me. Simple reason is the point you identified: versatility.

I don't like mid scooped, but the DC can do it better than the Express. So for that occasional foray (rare for me) that I have to play a "chug chug" rhythm, it's there (and better/thicker,tighter/ballsier than the express, even the 550). I could bore you with how many tones are "in there," and some would accuse me of exaggerating, but it's true: the DCs with their GEQ offer so much versatility in tone that unless you try one, you really don't fully understand how wide the tonal palatte is.

Same goes with thicker, more-saturated gain ...I do not play that way, but again, on occasion that I need that tone, it is there, easily, without breating hard. The Express just doesn't get that heavy or thick (not a knock, just a different voice).

Cleans are great on the DC5: big, round, and chimey ...but much better IMHO when one "gains down" the amp with tubes (different topic). But Fender Twin is in there (a add'l cab helps), but Fender Blackface is also there in spades. Dial in more gain on the clean channel and you are venturing into smooth, creamy breakup tones that are just gorgeous.

Now on that last note, I think the Express does superbly well. With edge-of breakup tone, the Express (at least my 525) is awesome sounding, and does pushed Blackface better than the DC. And for spaknky clean, I do prefer the Express more than my DC5: just more jangle and chime. Though I do not really ever play spanky clean, if one does I think the Express is the way to go.

So there you go. Different amps with different voices and strengths. I love both and will keep both (again, like you, I have sold many others in the past because "bonding" didn't happen). But if pushed to own jsut one, I'd go DC5 for versatitlity. But if the Express has your tone, then that's your avenue.

BTW, the Contour on the express is a huge improvement over the F-Series, IMHO. And it does an admirable job in moderate tone shaping for each channel: I'd rather have it than not (not the case in the previous contour control which I deplored). But it does not even come close to approaching the tonal versatiltiy of the GEQ. The problem is its fixed shape: zero ability to adjust mids. You do not scoop; neither do I. I prefer a mid bump, and play classic rock and blues-based music. I like/need mids for cut and definition. That GEQ is a God-send. Truth. And of course, all IMHO.

Edward

 

[MusicManJP6]

I agree with both replies above. I can only add that I loved my DC-3 (until bit by the Mark V bug), and I'm not a fan of the Express amps. The Express is harder to dial in and sounds much muddier. A friend had a 5:25 and put an EQ in the loop. He was able to dial in a great rock tone, but the DC can do it without the EQ and with aLOT less tweaking. The clean channel and light breakup on the Express is better, but the mid to high gain tones are better on the DC by far. The cleans are still really good on the DC though! They are just different.

 

[wizard333]

Thanks for the replies guys.

GD and Edward, sounds like you guys are similar to me in tonal taste. Edward, you said that the DC3 is more versatile; GD said the 5:50 would be. I'd expect the GEQ to make the DC3 more versatile, so I'm curious what GD finds more versatility in the 5:50....is it the low end thing? I agree the DC seems to lack lows if the treble pot goes above about 4, unless you dial them back in with the GEQ, which I'm not super fond of doing. I like getting a good sound without the GEQ then switching the GEQ in for a change in tone/level for soloes etc. I'm getting ready to put my mod hat on over the holidays to try to address that. Is there something else going on in the 5:50 that woud make it more versatile?

I don't need super saturated tones; the tone I'd use for serious "metal" would put my gain at 4 to 4.5 on the DC. Usually its between 2 and 3 so not having the full meltdown range of the DC wouldnt bother me much in the 5:50.

I'd love to be able to drag my DC into a store and hear them side by side, but the 2 boogie dealers locally don't seem to have a huge inventory and don't have a 5:50 or 5:25 available to listen to. From what I understand, I'd get more Fendery cleans from the DC5 than my DC3, which is fine. The schematic for the clean channel in the DC series is almost identical to the reverb channel in a vintage Fender, with the exception of where the reverb send/return is located and the value of the cathode bypass caps. The latter is easy to adjust and I'd expect doing that could make a DC5, with its twin 6L6s, very close to a Fender. The differences would be in the phase inverter and xformer (Mesa uses very under-sized xformers for some reason), but it should be quite close with the same cathode bypass cap values.

I haven't seen a schematic for a 5:50 yet so not sure whats going on there. Anyone have one available?

 

[GD_NC]

GD and Edward, sounds like you guys are similar to me in tonal taste. Edward, you said that the DC3 is more versatile; GD said the 5:50 would be.

I think the major difference in our opinions is Edward is referring to a DC-5 where I was referring to a DC-3. I think the 5:50 sounds much bigger and fuller than a DC-3. I suspect the DC-5 with 6l6's and more power is a much different sounding beast. The DC-5 is able to get more fender-ish than the DC-3 which really never gets as clean and clear sounding.

Bottom line. The are both good amps and close cousins. It's tough to make a bad choice between those two. If you prefer clean, blues & mid-gain rock you will probably like the 5:50. If you need the ability to go from Fender Twin to Metallica look into a DC-5.

 

[edward]

Yup, the 6L6 makes a considerable difference in the voice between the 525 and 550. The proverbial "Fender Clean" is so often used (of which I am equally guilty), but it just applies here...to both the 550 and DC5.

You can think of the DC5 as "more" of you DC3, albeit with less mid-high voicing, and stronger/tighter/fuller bottom end. Lots of great versatility in tones here as said, with the GEQ. And I mean versatility in all tones, not just the ability to get death metal ...a very wide tonal palatte here. But the other thing is the separate, discrete preamp sections. I chose different tubes for each channel: can't do that with the Express (or other high-end amps for that matter!). This is a significant "feature" that many don't realize!! ...again, IMHO.

You can think of the 550 as a DC5 with maybe a tad more upper-mids, and will easily get you into the Fender spanky clean better than the DC5. And edge-of-breakup tones as good as the DC5, some may opine better. The one advantage of the 5:50 is the different voicings of the Clean and Blues channels. I found I prefer the Blues channel with low gain ...just a lovely clean or semi-clean tone. And use channel 1 Crunch for your OD ...much better mid-gain OD tone that seems like it would suit you better. (FWIW, I hate the Burn channel ...experimented endlessly with it ...useless for me ...ugh!).

Both 5:50 and DC5 are good choices here. It may come down to price and/or availability as your tipping point.

Edward

 

[Trea]

I have to agree with Edward here. I find the 5:50 to be a great amp but I don't really use the burn channel at all. It just doesn't suit me. I love the crunch channel though. It has such a great drive sound and plenty of gain for my needs. There is more gain on the burn channel of course, but I just don't care for the sound. I also use the blues channel with the gain set around 9 o'clock for my clean sounds. If I could change one thing about the amp it would be to have the clean/crunch on two different channels, but the way I use it works fine for me. But man with the gain up and the master cranked on the crunch channel it sounds awesome

 

[UKBoogieboy]

The Express 5.50 is the opposite to scooped , its mid heavy, to scoop it using the clean channel clean mode you can turn the mid down and turn up the contour, its got a pronouced low-mid sound which I could do without so an E.Q. pedal can sort that out.

In the Clean channel "crunch" mode and the channel 2 blues/burn mode the mid is voiced very heavily and you can't scoop much it just using the amps controls.

The F50 has got a better clean channel because the low-mid isn't as present, it sounds more uncoloured and neutral "flat" E.Q. sound. I find that pedals sound much better with the F50 clean, than the 5.50 clean because of the pronouced low mid.


I am however really enjoying the Burn channel on the 5.50 and the funny mid sound on the clean channel can be sorted out with an E.Q. cutting the low mid.