Express 5:50 vrs Bogner Alchemist

[1esotericguy]

The Express and the new Alchemist spec out really similarly.

a.) Wattage adjust
b.) 6L6
c.) 2 channel with 2 separate psuedo channels in each channel
d.) 1x12 or 2x12 combos in addition to head/cab configs
e.) Priced about the same

Who wins? Do they sound similar? I own the 5:50 Express 1X12 combo and really dig it. Also, I got it before last year's price increase - so it was actually cheaper than the 1X12 Alchemist is now. Does Mesa win on overall value since it's a real USA Mesa factory made vrs the Line 6 China factory that makes the Alchemist? I have to admit, the built in digital delay is really appealing on the Alchemist; one less thing to lug around. Discuss :!:

 

[MikeK]

Made in the USA - Mesa Engineering quality gives me more confidence. (Even if the Bogner does come with a digital delay.) :wink:

 

[ellem52]

I spent a few minutes listening to the two amps on YouTube and the Bogner sounds like a Line6. Line6 makes some interesting stuff and I have no problem with their stuff but if you play a Line6 it sounds like you're playing out of Line6. For the old folks here... think Rocktron. No matter what you try to do you sounded like you were playing through a Rocktron.

In person it might be a different story.

As for built-in anything - feh - I don't care. Reverb is an indulgence

 

[primal]

As for built-in anything - feh - I don't care. Reverb is an indulgence

+1000

To me getting an expensive tube amp with built in anything other then maybe reverb is like buying the big screen TV with the builtin DVD player.

You know the moment blue ray or something better comes out, your gonna want to have that. But your gonna have this built in peice of crap that you feel obligated to use since it is built in.

A great tube amp NEVER becomes obsolete. It is like a fine wine. It gets better with age.

You buy a tube amp with built in effects you'll end up with a decent amp with an obsolete peice of crap wrapped around it ten years from now.

Get external effects and run them through the loop. When they become obsolete, you can chuck them, and get something knew, all the while you still have a great tube amp.

 

[Artmusic]

I just got the Alchimist today, a 1x12 combo. I don't know what it may sound like on line, but it sounds real good in person. Very active EQ, very cool vibe w/both of my Pauls. It does have the delay and reverb built in and they sound good as any other effect, (parallel configuration), which should always be used sparingly in my view. But if you don't want to use them, just shut them off. The amp also has an effects loop, (also parallel), but the only effects I use are reverb and delay. I say, play and listen to it yourself, and make your own decision.
Art

 

[Newysurfer]

The Express and the new Alchemist spec out really similarly.

a.) Wattage adjust
b.) 6L6
c.) 2 channel with 2 separate psuedo channels in each channel
d.) 1x12 or 2x12 combos in addition to head/cab configs
e.) Priced about the same

Who wins? Do they sound similar? I own the 5:50 Express 1X12 combo and really dig it. Also, I got it before last year's price increase - so it was actually cheaper than the 1X12 Alchemist is now. Does Mesa win on overall value since it's a real USA Mesa factory made vrs the Line 6 China factory that makes the Alchemist? I have to admit, the built in digital delay is really appealing on the Alchemist; one less thing to lug around. Discuss :!:

Geez Esoteric -
do you buy expensive gear without fully testing it first. I never do.
I've never seen an Alchemist and it's specs sounded reasonable until someone above said it has a parrallel loop. That's an immediate deal breaker for me. I'd never buy an amp with a parrallel loop. If you're using a lot of effects a Serial loop is much better.

So the Bogner has got a Line 6 delay built in huh. 2 things there - Line 6 aren't known for making high quality delay pedals so is the delay they've put in the amp any good. And what features does it have. If it was as good as an average Line 6 delay pedal I wouldn't use it.

Plus - am I right in thinking the power cut switch on the Bogner only goes to 20w. If so, that's not nearly as useful as the Express 5w option.
But go test it out.

 

[nomad100hd]

i agree parallel loop is a deal breaker. 40 -> 20 watt difference is more for feel than volume, and i agree 50pp -> 5se watts is more substantial change.

 

[1esotericguy]

The Express and the new Alchemist spec out really similarly.

a.) Wattage adjust
b.) 6L6
c.) 2 channel with 2 separate psuedo channels in each channel
d.) 1x12 or 2x12 combos in addition to head/cab configs
e.) Priced about the same

Who wins? Do they sound similar? I own the 5:50 Express 1X12 combo and really dig it. Also, I got it before last year's price increase - so it was actually cheaper than the 1X12 Alchemist is now. Does Mesa win on overall value since it's a real USA Mesa factory made vrs the Line 6 China factory that makes the Alchemist? I have to admit, the built in digital delay is really appealing on the Alchemist; one less thing to lug around. Discuss :!:

Geez Esoteric -
do you buy expensive gear without fully testing it first. I never do.
I've never seen an Alchemist and it's specs sounded reasonable until someone above said it has a parrallel loop. That's an immediate deal breaker for me. I'd never buy an amp with a parrallel loop. If you're using a lot of effects a Serial loop is much better.

So the Bogner has got a Line 6 delay built in huh. 2 things there - Line 6 aren't known for making high quality delay pedals so is the delay they've put in the amp any good. And what features does it have. If it was as good as an average Line 6 delay pedal I wouldn't use it.

Plus - am I right in thinking the power cut switch on the Bogner only goes to 20w. If so, that's not nearly as useful as the Express 5w option.
But go test it out.

Yeah - I can't leave my Express. Sounds too good, looks too good, & solid as a rock. AND it shares production line space (QC, MANAGEMENT ETC), and supply chain with amps 3 times the price. I'm more intrigued by the fact that the Alchemist is getting so much more attention than the Express did when it was released. They're so similar to me in specs yet more people seem excited about the Alchemist than the Express when it first was released. It's like the Made in USA thing doesn't even matter here, when it always seems to matter to guitar people. Even Egnater can't quite shake the Made in China stigma with the Tourmaster lineup, but Line 6 seems to have PR steamrolled right through that problem. Gotta hand it to them and Reinhold. Boogie actually beat them to market, produces it USA, and prices it the same - but the Alchemist will likely be a much bigger hit. It's an interesting business marketing study more than anything else.

 

[MikeK]

The fact that it is made in the USA is a big plus for me. But the quality of the build, the choice of components, is also where it shines. 40+ years and still going strong. They keep doing it right. No wonder companies like Bogner Amplification target Boogie's 'California Sound' to base their products on. And taking nothing away from Bogner, they produce amps that do sound good. Why shouldn't they, they've copied one of the best. :lol:

 

[Artmusic]

I am not, now would I ever take anything away from Mesa, I love my F-30, but the Bogner does really sound good in its own way and I plan on keeping both, along with a few others. My only point was that you should keep an open mind and if something looks interesting, try it out.
Art

 

[audiofreud]

I prefer a tube amp that doesn't color the sound of the guitar -- sure, a little gain is nice, but I want to hear the woods in the guitar, otherwise spending $4,000 on a guitar isn't worth it if you're gonna distort the crap out of the tone.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

I love how you guys all bash the hell out that amp based on a couple of youtube videos.

All I know about the express is with exceptions of cleans and the REVERB (Ahem), the dirt channel sure sounded like um.... DIRT to me! And I owned it for a week before taking it back.

I hope the Alchemist ups the ante, and inspires mesa to offer us something better than the express train to disappointment!

 

[ellem52]

I love how you guys all bash the hell out that amp based on a couple of youtube videos.

All I know about the express is with exceptions of cleans and the REVERB (Ahem), the dirt channel sure sounded like um.... DIRT to me! And I owned it for a week before taking it back.

I hope the Alchemist ups the ante, and inspires mesa to offer us something better than the express train to disappointment!

The "trick" with any Mesa EVER is to adjust the EQ controls with your EARS not your EYES. So when you plug into a Marshall and you set bass to 5 o'clock, treble to 9 o'clock and treble to 3 o'clock you sound like metal!! Do that with a Mesa and you sound like mud. But spend 10 minutes rolling things back and LISTENING and whallah! You sound like metal!!

The knobs on a Mesa do something and they all matter - even those weird ones on the back!

 

[Artmusic]

I love how you guys all bash the hell out that amp based on a couple of youtube videos.

All I know about the express is with exceptions of cleans and the REVERB (Ahem), the dirt channel sure sounded like um.... DIRT to me! And I owned it for a week before taking it back.

I hope the Alchemist ups the ante, and inspires mesa to offer us something better than the express train to disappointment!

The "trick" with any Mesa EVER is to adjust the EQ controls with your EARS not your EYES. So when you plug into a Marshall and you set bass to 5 o'clock, treble to 9 o'clock and treble to 3 o'clock you sound like metal!! Do that with a Mesa and you sound like mud. But spend 10 minutes rolling things back and LISTENING and whallah! You sound like metal!!

The knobs on a Mesa do something and they all matter - even those weird ones on the back!

I agree totally, but the Bogner EQ is also active, very active. I know, I have one. I like that kind of EQ, that's why I have a Mesa. If you think that amp is all about gain though, you really need to try one, because its not. Again, I'm not saying it sounds better than a Mesa, I'm saying it sounds different, it has its own vibe which really is a Bogner vibe. I A/B'd an expensive Bogner next to this amp, its not the same, but it has the same vibe, and it just sounds good to me.
Art

 

[Newysurfer]

Bogner make good amps.
Haven't heard this Alchemist but I'm sure it sounds good.
But it's got a parrallel loop so end of story.
Wouldn't consider buying it.

 

[rastaman]

I love how you guys all bash the hell out that amp based on a couple of youtube videos.

All I know about the express is with exceptions of cleans and the REVERB (Ahem), the dirt channel sure sounded like um.... DIRT to me! And I owned it for a week before taking it back.

I hope the Alchemist ups the ante, and inspires mesa to offer us something better than the express train to disappointment!

Hmmm... my 5:50 2x12 Express combo's dirt channel has never sounded like dirt, I must of got a good one.

 

[jdurso]

for those looking to play the alchemist just go to guitar center as most should be socked with them by now.

as for how it sounds.... well it sounds pretty awesome. The cleans have a huge amount of headroom and sound sweet. The dirty channel is very dark even with the bright switch turned on... you may need a trble boost to get a sweet metal tone but the amp flat out rocks. The quality in tone is what i would expect from bogner. And those ripping on the verbs and delays... well i suggest playing the amp first because they sounds awesome. Could you use more flexible tweaking? Sure but they still sound good.

As for its comparison to the express.... not even fair to compare the two. The expresses cleans cant be touched outside some fenders. The alchemist has great cleans but i prefer the expess. now as far as the dirty channels... the express is much brighter than the alchemist but the alchemist has much more gain on tap. In this area i prefer the alchemist. Now the mesa is american made so whether that is a deciding factor to some then thats well enough... as for me i dont care where its built as long as its built well and sounds great.

In conclusion, the alchemist is a great amp especially for the money.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

The "trick" with any Mesa EVER is to adjust the EQ controls with your EARS not your EYES. So when you plug into a Marshall and you set bass to 5 o'clock, treble to 9 o'clock and treble to 3 o'clock you sound like metal!! Do that with a Mesa and you sound like mud. But spend 10 minutes rolling things back and LISTENING and whallah! You sound like metal!!

The knobs on a Mesa do something and they all matter - even those weird ones on the back!

Yes I know, had to be user error right? I spent the time, and no matter WHAT I did, the attack and the chunk just weren't there. GREAT amp for R&B up to hard rock I'd say. But that's not what I go to "Mesa" for.

Also had an F-50 which I liked the dirt channel better, but eventually ended up at a Mark IV. If you can dial a Mark IV in, chances are you can dial in ANY amp.

The cleans and reverb from the Express still haunt me though. Best I've heard from ANY amp. I'll even say that INCLUDES Fenders.

Maybe I'll pick one up again used later, but I couldn't justify the new amp cost for what I was hearing. The bells and whistles were cool, but I would have rather had 2 channels I was in love with instead of 1 and 3 that left me wanting.

 

[crisis]

As for built-in anything - feh - I don't care. Reverb is an indulgence

+1000

To me getting an expensive tube amp with built in anything other then maybe reverb is like buying the big screen TV with the builtin DVD player.

You know the moment blue ray or something better comes out, your gonna want to have that. But your gonna have this built in peice of crap that you feel obligated to use since it is built in.

A great tube amp NEVER becomes obsolete. It is like a fine wine. It gets better with age.

You buy a tube amp with built in effects you'll end up with a decent amp with an obsolete peice of crap wrapped around it ten years from now.

Get external effects and run them through the loop. When they become obsolete, you can chuck them, and get something knew, all the while you still have a great tube amp.

I really don’t get this. If the delay is there use it or don’t. If the DVD is thrown in likewise. If you find a better one the presence of the other does not preclude you doing what you would do with an amp sans delay. And I don’t know how delay becomes obsolete. If you find a better one just use it. I actually would like built in effect especially if they complimented the amp perfectly. I wouldn’t buy an amp based on the presence of them or not though. I was very interested in the Alchemist but it seemed to take forever to be produced and I ended up getting a Single Recto which I have no intention of parting with.