Express 5:50 sounding "flubby" I think.

[guitarchris76]

I have a 2x12 5:50 and I am new to Mesa's and amps with 6l6 tubes so am not sure if this is normal. My burn channel seems to sound like the amp is really being pushed it is particularly noticeable on the d,a and low e strings. I am tending to think it is normal because it is similar to the way Andy Timmons guitar sounds on his resolution album and I did notice that the Fender Hot Rod amps seem to do the same thing. I just wanted get some opinions. Thanks

 

[abe]

That was one of the factors that kept me from really liking the amp. The cleans were awesome though.

 

[CudBucket]

What settings are you using?

 

[voodoo_child]

I am tending to think it is normal because it is similar to the way Andy Timmons guitar sounds on his resolution album and I did notice that the Fender Hot Rod amps seem to do the same thing.

Andy Timmons recorded Resolution using Marshalls, not Boogies.

 

[CudBucket]

I am tending to think it is normal because it is similar to the way Andy Timmons guitar sounds on his resolution album and I did notice that the Fender Hot Rod amps seem to do the same thing.

Andy Timmons recorded Resolution using Marshalls, not Boogies.

True. And I'd hardly describe his tone as flubby.

 

[guitarchris76]

I used the word "flubby" simply because I have seen it used all over the place to describe mesa amps. I am sorry if that was not an accurate description. Also, regardless of whether Timmons used Marshalls, Mesa's or a Gorilla with a blown speaker. The sound I am talking about is the same type of break up that he had on that album. It almost sounds like the amps is being pushed hard. I have the bass at about 12:00 the treble at 3:00 mids at about 7:00 and the gain all the way up.

 

[SixVeeSix]

As a general rule, the more gain the less bass. Full gain is a lot of gain, do you really need it? You better believe it sounds like it is being pushed hard at full gain. Try backing the gain off a couple of notches and turning down the bass a bit. Mesa amps take a bit more tweaking than some because the circuits have a wider range of effect. Usually the culprit in flubbiness is a combination of gain and bass. Which pickup position on the guitar are you using? You will not get the chunk of a closed back 4-12 cab out of a 2-12 open back and trying to will only sound caved in or flubberish. Maybe add a closed back 2-12 to your rig? Best of luck to you, just keep on tweaking!!

 

[guitarchris76]

Thank you SixVee. By the way I love "5 notes with tone is worth 50,000 without." I have been having some major hand problems over the past two years so I was forced into realizing that. I used to be able to play as fast as the best of them and every time I played it was a non-stop shred fest. I am now really limited to playing relatively slow and while at first it really bummed me out I have to say I am now much happier with my playing and find myself enjoying it much more. I regret to say that after a lot of physical therapy and a major surgery the problme is still not solved but I am soing to be seeing the same surgeon that takes care of a lot of the berkely instructors as well as many of the Boston Pops players and I know he has had some very high profile guitarists as well. So we can only hope. I will never go back to playing like I used to but to play without pain would be great. Thanks again for the tip.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

That was one of the factors that kept me from really liking the amp. The cleans were awesome though.

Yup, and why I returned the amp after a week trying to get some balls out of it.

**** those cleans WERE nice though! A fairly portable amp to boot.

 

[MusicManJP6]

OT: I bleeb JP uses a 5:50 at home.... Just FYI.

I agree with SixVeeSix completely. The gain and bass are both contributing factors to 'flubby' low end. The bass is the main culprit, though. Sounds like 12'o clock would be a little high and definitely getting into 'flubby' territory. A closed back would allow you to keep your bass turned down and still achieve a good tight 'chunk'. I sold my 1x12 open back coz it just didn't do anything for me. I prefer the thiele cabs much more than open backs ANY day.

 

[Cowbell Fever]

That is why el84's in the express 5.25 sound better more burn less flubb.....bwahahahahaha!

 

[Charlie]

I'd try swapping out some preamp tubes. I had some flub in my F-50 when I got it and I put Tung sols in in and that cleared things up.

 

[richt]

I haven't noticed a huge amount of flub with mine, but then I usually keep the bass at about 10 O'Clock on both channels with mine. Mid at 11 and Treble at Noon. I have the Contour always on, and that is usually between Noon and 2 O' clock. With those settings, I get a great sound out of my ES and Les Paul Standard.

Cheers,

Richt

 

[John Vasco]

Another thing to consider, given that you are talking the bottom three strings, is whether, if you are using humbucking pickups, your polepieces are correctly balanced. I had a similar problem with my 76 LP Deluxe on the lower strings, so I adjusted the polepieces downwards until there was an even response across all 6 strings. Deliriously happy with its sound now through the clean channel (but the same principle applies through the overdrive/gain/burn etc. channel).

Hope this is of some small help.

 

[guitarchris76]

I have been playing the amp and as I am new to Mesa's really don't know what the best way to describe the "noise" is. Flubby seems to be the buzz word so I used that. I know I got heat when I mentioned Andy Timmons Resolution tone. Well after trying to train my ears to pick out the sound I would say it is really just more of a fuzz type distortion than I am used to. My last two amps were a solid state Marshall and a Crate VFX5212. The overdrive/distortion I seem to be getting from my Express is probably most comperable to the Big Muff type of drive. It has that kind of sizzling sounding fuzz to it. As I said I did get this from the Fender Hot Rod deluxe (the amp I was going to get until I played the Mesa) so am wondering if it might be the nature of the 6L6 tubes. Any more thoughts?

 

[phyrexia]

If you are running the gain wide open and the bass at 12:00 it doesn't surprise me your amp sounds flabby. Learn to set it up better!

 

[Newysurfer]

There are all sorts of meaningless adjectives being thrown around this forum to describe tonal characteristics.
"Flubby - soft - mushy - tight" etc etc .
What do they mean? Does anyone know - NO.
They all mean different things to different people and absolutely nothin to most of us. Your flubbiness is my tightness and if it wasn't so soft it might be mushy. Is that good or bad :lol:

 

[oz_mike]

I'm pretty sure that the Express has the EQ out the front of the preamp, like the Mark series. In this case, you really need to rin the bass low, and the mids/Treble high. Try starting with:

treble: 2 O'clock (70%)
Middle: 2 O'clock (70%)
Bass: 9 O'clock (25%)

Also, try running your gain a bit lower to keep things tight. The gain pot I'm sure has a bypass cap across it.

Your Contour control will be the real key to EQing the amp, as this is the EQ which comes after the preamp.

 

[NuSkoolTone]

There are all sorts of meaningless adjectives being thrown around this forum to describe tonal characteristics.
"Flubby - soft - mushy - tight" etc etc .
What do they mean? Does anyone know - NO.
They all mean different things to different people and absolutely nothin to most of us. Your flubbiness is my tightness and if it wasn't so soft it might be mushy. Is that good or bad :lol:

I don't know man, generally when people use these "meaningless adjectives" I've got a pretty good idea what they mean.

IME:
-Flubbiness usually means more bass that can be handled and either the amp or cab sort of "Farts out"

-Tightness means a STRONG pick attack, often to where it can knock you over if turned up. It can also refer to a well controlled tone, often cited in the bass region.

Soft/mushy can be substituted for each other. But if I were to separate:

Mushy: An indistinct attack, or one that is not very powerful. Can also be referred to as smearing of the notes. This can be hinted at as compressed as well, but often the word "squishy" (Uh oh new word!) might be used there.

Soft: I'd say an attack that is not very loud, where the envelope develops/blooms more quickly but is more legato feeling.

These things are kind of hard to put into words as what I've written still doesn't fully encompass these words. A lot of it is a "I know what you mean" kinda thing.

As always this is AKAIK, and YMMV.

TTYL.

 

[coffee_n_cigs]

I have been playing the amp and as I am new to Mesa's really don't know what the best way to describe the "noise" is. Flubby seems to be the buzz word so I used that. I know I got heat when I mentioned Andy Timmons Resolution tone. Well after trying to train my ears to pick out the sound I would say it is really just more of a fuzz type distortion than I am used to. My last two amps were a solid state Marshall and a Crate VFX5212. The overdrive/distortion I seem to be getting from my Express is probably most comperable to the Big Muff type of drive. It has that kind of sizzling sounding fuzz to it. As I said I did get this from the Fender Hot Rod deluxe (the amp I was going to get until I played the Mesa) so am wondering if it might be the nature of the 6L6 tubes. Any more thoughts?

I think what you're experiecing is a combination of
- A) The difference between tube and solid state saturation
- B) the inherent design of the Express amp

IME, I found the Express 25:5 combo to be pretty much the same as what you've described. Fizzy, flabby, etc... No matter what I tried, I just could not get a tight, round, warm high gain tone out of the amp. Palm muting lacked that juicyness you'd get from a Recto and certainly the tightness of a Mark IV. Personally, thats why I loved the F-series so much (the amp the Express line has apparently replaced). Both qualities I dug about Rectos and Marks where encompassed in the F-series, at least IMO.