Express 5:50 2x12 needs more articulation, any suggestions?

[MrMason]

I love my Express, especially the blues mode, but I'm wondering if there's a way to make the Express more articulate sounding. There's too much bass (or maybe it's just not tight enough, I don't know) in the crunch and burn modes; it sounds good for certain sounds, but I feel like it could be better. Especially on the neck pickup, it's just mud city and too aggressive no matter how I EQ it , although the neck single coil sounds amazing on the blues mode. I'm using the crunch mode because it seems to be the most articulate of the two lead modes, and ended up getting an MXR Ten Band EQ to bring out more mids which helped, but I'm wondering if maybe a speaker change would be the way to go? I'll add that I haven't changed the stock tubes yet except for replacing one with an EH12ax7.
I've gotten the crunch mode in the territory I like in terms of gain: I use the song La Grange as one of my references. Light picking, some gain but slightly clean. Harder picking for a moderately high gain. Kick in the EQ pedal for solos. It sounds really good in terms of the pick attack, but just not enough clarity in the notes.
Any suggestions? I'd like something that I could still get a similar sound on the Blues mode, but something with more clarity on the Crunch mode. Thanks in advance.

 

[boogiemon]

you might try an EV if it will fit.

I love my Express, especially the blues mode, but I'm wondering if there's a way to make the Express more articulate sounding. There's too much bass (or maybe it's just not tight enough, I don't know) in the crunch and burn modes; it sounds good for certain sounds, but I feel like it could be better. Especially on the neck pickup, it's just mud city and too aggressive no matter how I EQ it , although the neck single coil sounds amazing on the blues mode. I'm using the crunch mode because it seems to be the most articulate of the two lead modes, and ended up getting an MXR Ten Band EQ to bring out more mids which helped, but I'm wondering if maybe a speaker change would be the way to go? I'll add that I haven't changed the stock tubes yet except for replacing one with an EH12ax7.
I've gotten the crunch mode in the territory I like in terms of gain: I use the song La Grange as one of my references. Light picking, some gain but slightly clean. Harder picking for a moderately high gain. Kick in the EQ pedal for solos. It sounds really good in terms of the pick attack, but just not enough clarity in the notes.
Any suggestions? I'd like something that I could still get a similar sound on the Blues mode, but something with more clarity on the Crunch mode. Thanks in advance.

 

[bigpine]

Try a clean boost in front. LPB-1 works great for me.

 

[JDBoogie]

I just put a JBL d120f speaker in my 5:25 1x12 combo and it totally brought the amp to life for me. Articulation was what I was going for and it is exactly what I got. I have been playing through MESA Boogie S.O.B. 1x12 for about 20 years. What I always loved about it was the definition it has in both clean and distorted modes. A previous owner had put a JBL d120f in it and I had no idea that it was a special speaker until a guitar tech doing some work on the amp brought it to my attention. These were used in early Fender Twins. As much as I liked the SOB, I always wished it had more flexibility such as channel switching and reverb. I read a lot of rave reviews about the Express series so a couple months ago, I bought a 5:25 in the new 1x12 configuration. Even after playing around with all the features the amp has to offer, I never could get it to produce the kind of punch, clarity, and definiton I was used to and liked. This was particularly frustrating in the case of my Hamer Talladega which gave a spectacular tone through the SOB but sounded dull and lifeless through the 5:15. Today, I put the two amps side-by-side and plugged the JBL in the SOB into the back of the 5:15 and whamo! The Hamer sounded the way it should again. I spent the afternoon. A B comparing the JBL with the Celestion 30 that came in the 5:15 using the Hamer and other guitars including a Strat, an Epi Les Paul, a PRS, and an old Ibanez Musician. A resounding success with all of them. The JBL now has a new home in the 5:15. The 5:15 now has the snap, punch, and articulation I like. What I gave up with the swap up was that the Celestion went into distortion at lower amp settings where the JBL takes a higher gain to get the same distortion. However, the Celestion was, to my ears, muddy in the low end and the JBL got rid of that and added high end sparkle. I have read on boards that for, some people, the JBL d120f is overly bright. I figure that is what tone controls on the guitar and amp are meant for dealing with. The 5:15 is now fantastic amp for my tonal tastes. If articulation is your aim, I suggest you consider a JBL. Maybe that or a similar speaker would do the trick for you.

 

[JDBoogie]

btw, that should be 5:25 all the way through my last post. The JBL speaker didn't somehow suck 10 watts from the amps output......

 

[MrMason]

That JBL sounds like what I'm looking for...but is there anything that's still being produced that adds clarity and articulation?

 

[Newysurfer]

Try new tubes. They definitely improved the tone of my 5:50 - gave more gain, made it smoother and cut noise a lot.

I've got a 2x12 cab too with 2 Celestion V30's. Definitely better than the Black Shadow. Less boomy and better clarity.

 

[mesaluckystrike]

Hi,

I have a 5:25 with the 1x10. I recently got a 2x12 cab with celestion alnico blue speakers and it has made the sound even more amazing. Clears up the muddiness, tight bass end and sparkling highs. For teh 5:50 you might consider a celestion gold, they are expensive but i think its worth it.

 

[Room3]

I agree with Newysurfer that experimenting with new tubes,particularly in the preamp, will go a long way in making a tonal difference in the 5:50. After that, you can change the speaker for more options.

 

[MikeW]

I agree with the tube thing.....I have also discovered my 5:50 is much more friendly with single coils than it is with humbuckers......a gain thing. You can tame some of that with some 12AT7's or 5751's in V1 and V2.....

 

[MrMason]

I've never been able to tell any substantial tonal differences between tubes. There's SOME difference, but I can't even tell much of a difference between an NOS Mullard and a new production Sovtek; and that's the long and short of it. Maybe less noise, maybe a slight change in gain, dynamics will be slightly different, but nothing dramatic. I do plan on giving Doug a ring to see what tubes he suggests, but I doubt it will be a big improvement.
Speakers DO have a dramatic change on sound, and yes I've tried Vintage 30's with the Express; they sound good, but have too much "honk" for my tastes and the blues/cleans aren't as good. I also have a Carvin 4x12 loaded with the original Eminence BR12s, and they KILL the Vintage 30's for lead, but the cabinet doesn't sound right on the blues mode. Currently I don't have the cash for changing the speakers, but I did find if I turned the bass on the crunch channel all the way down that it sounds a lot better. I was going to go the route of an Earcandy Buzzbomb 2x12 loaded with Green Machines, which I'm sure sounds awesome, but right now I just don't want another piece of equipment to carry around. I still may change the speakers, but for now turning down the bass to 0 and using an MXR 10 band EQ with mids boosted in front of the amp seems to help the sound a lot. Thanks for all of the help, I still may go one route or the other.

 

[Hobo]

Try new tubes. They definitely improved the tone of my 5:50 - gave more gain, made it smoother and cut noise a lot.

I've got a 2x12 cab too with 2 Celestion V30's. Definitely better than the Black Shadow. Less boomy and better clarity.

I have an F-30. I bought it used and liked it but it sounded flubby when I tried to add more bass.
I put in a complete set off JJs from Eurotubes and WOW, what a difference. Took out all of the flubbines, made it tighter & crunchier. Got rid of the annoying hiss also.
I never knew tubes could make such a difference but I am sold.

 

[climberjase]

Hi guys

I've had my Express for about a year now and had declared channel 2 pretty unusable because of this problem. The breakup seemed too raspy and not smooth and creamy like I wanted, and it lacked articulation. The reverb muddied the sound instead of enhanced it. I used channel 1 with an OCD pedal instead for all my leads because I just couldn't hear what I was playing on channel 2.

Following the recommendations of people here, I contacted Doug at www.dougstubes.com and he hooked me up with a mesa retube kit. We ended up doing something different to his standard mesa retube kit because V4 and V5 in the express perform different functions than in the Lone Star etc.

I was floored by the change in sound. Channel 2 is now the ultimate smooth creamy singing lead sound that I've always wanted, and it plays beautifully. Every note stands through.

Here's what we settled on:
V1 - Tung-Sol reissue
V2 - high gain JJ ECC85S
V3 - Penta Labs
V4 - Electroharmonix 12AX7
V5 - RUBY 12AX7AC5
SED Winged =C= 6L6GC for the power amp

To anyone that hasn't done this yet to their Express, this is the best 100 bucks you can spend. I played a Recto, Lone Star and a Roadster at Guitar Center the other day, and my retubed Express is in my opinion a better sounding amp now.

 

[Koreth]

Try a GE 12AX7A shortplate in V1. I put this tube in V1 of my Nomad. It trimmed off a bit of bass, and gave nice, tight, clarity to everything. If you can find a good deal on one of these tubes, give it a shot.

 

[kingster911]

I'll answer you just from reading the post title: Get a 5:25 1x10".

 

[Don]

I don't use reverb on channel 2 but I leave it switched on with the knob all the way down. It adds a small amount of presence to that channel.

I have an Eminance Tonker that I've used in the amp on occasion. It makes it louder, brighter and more articulate, though a little less rich on channel 1.

 

[wilerty]

I had an Express 5:50 2X12 and had the same problem. The bottom end can be very overpowering and muddy. The quickest cure is to run the bass knob at about 9 o'clock. That will help a lot. The LSC had the same issue. I play mostly clean and wanted a very tight muted bass sound, and it is just difficult to do with a stock Mesa ... especially at low volume.

 

[Newysurfer]

The bottom end can be very overpowering and muddy. The quickest cure is to run the bass knob at about 9 o'clock. That will help a lot.

+1
I never raise the Bass pot over 10 oclock.

 

[MrMason]

The bottom end can be very overpowering and muddy. The quickest cure is to run the bass knob at about 9 o'clock. That will help a lot.

+1
I never raise the Bass pot over 10 oclock.

10 o'clock? mine stays at 6 o'clock :mrgreen: