Eurotubes or Doug's Tubes???

[Monsta-Tone]

I've been thinking about re-tubing my DC-5 for a while.

I have a DC-5 A and a DC-10 A. Both are virtually identical in preamp circuitry, but the DC-10 just has tons more gain and sustain and the Clean channel sounds better. Believe it or not, it still has the original Mesa preamp tubes and the serial # is 99!


I usually get JJ's for about $6 a tube, but there seems to be a high failure rate among all of the preamp tubes that I've gotten in the last few months, no matter what the brand.

So, for my personal amp, I'm thinking about biting the bullet and getting a complete set from someone who tests them very well.



I've heard great things about the Penta and Tung-Sol reissues. Camsna's amp had both and it sounded very nice.


What do you guys think? I had a High Gain set from Bob in my Mark IV and really liked them.

 

[cb101]

This won't help out very much but I've had good luck and service from both. I've only purchased power tubes from Bob as I really don't like the JJ's in the preamp. That said, I have made numerous purchases from Doug. He has a vast array of tubes to try. I have had no luck at all with the Tung-Sol's. I really don't like that tube but I recently got some of the new reissue Mullard 12axt's and those have worked out really well. Doug claims they are actually rated as a higher gain 12axt but I have found just the opposite. In my amps they are acting like a juiced up 5751. Very mellow with just a tinge of darkness but good clarity. Even though I have sets of the JJ power tubes in two of my amps, all of my Mesa's have Winged -C-'s. They really are great power tubes. On a personal note, in my experiences with Doug, don't expect him to ramble on and on about tubes. He's courteous but to the point. Just tell him what you are looking for in sound and he always seems to come up with the right tube. He is a CFO of a major automotive dealership in the Northeast so he does have a daytime job.

 

[Esromeron]

+1 on the SED =C='s 6L6's. I swear by these now. They do wonders in Mesa's.

I myself have purchased from Doug's Tubes many times, and every time it was great service. I recently had a SED =C= arrive and it didn't work (first time this has happened over a few years with Doug!). I e-mailed him and within a few days of sending it back I got a new one free of charge.

I really suggest trying Doug's preamp set, but not the one he lists on his website. If you E-mail him he will recommend this now.

(For my DC-5)
V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - Mullard reissue 12AX7
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V5 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V6 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

I usually don't like Tung-Sol's in V1, but in the DC5 it sounds great. With this setup, to my ears everything improved. The gain is smooth and my leads now scream like never before. The cleans are simply amazing (not sure else how to describe them!) Even the reverb seemed to improve with the Shuguang C9 in V5. But even with all this said about the preamps, the biggest difference in the amp is the SED =C='s in my opinion.

 

[6L6C]

I think it kind of breaks down to are you willing to experiment a little or stay with what you know and like.
I have had great luck with Tung-Sol’s although it is not the entire complement of my preamp section. Allot of guys like JJ’s and from what I have heard personally, to dark for me and did not care what they did to the clean channel (friends amp). So in my confusion went with Doug the preamp consist of

V1 Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 high gain JJ ECC83S
V3 Penta Labs/Shuguang 12AX7C
V4 Unlabled/Shuguang 12AX7C
V5 balanced Sovtek 12AX7LPS
Yep there is a JJ in V2 which brought R2 new life I never knew it had.
This is the order that Doug recommended I have switched it up a bit and sometimes the results were little better but something else would suffer so I stick with the order he told me. Love the =C= have a couple of sets of these.

But it also breaks down to did the manufacture have a good or bad run, I might get a set of Tumg-Sol tomorrow and hate them a set of JJ’s and love them to death. But with what I have above is the best my amp has ever sounded!

 

[phyrexia]

I only shop with Mike from KCANOSTubes.com. He is a "straight shooter" and a good guy who knows his stuff.

Seems like Doug tells people the same tube complement regardless of what amp you have. I don't have any experience with Eurotubes.

 

[camsna]

I used ALL JJ's from Bob for several years. Bob at Eurotubes was wonderful to deal with. He sells good product. He's fair. He knows his stuff. And he sincerely cares about his customers and their tone.

That said.

The tubes I bought from Doug just slay the JJs. I REALLY like the Tung Sol in V1. I had an RFT in V3 but recently replaced it with the Penta Chinese from Doug - it kills! I tried all of the preamp tubes from Dougs preamp kit in every position. I just liked what he recommended. It suits my amp really well. Here's what I've got. (Mk. III - Blue Stripe...)

V1 - Tung Sol
V2 - JJ High Gain ECC83S (from Eurotubes!)
V3 - Penta Labs Chinese
V4 - Empty (who needs reverb?!)
V5 - Sovtek LPS
Inner Power Tubes - SED 6L6GC
Outter Power Tubes - JJ KT77 (From Eurotubes!)

 

[nosajwp]

Andy,

I've had several great experiences with Bob at Eurotubes. I told him the kinds of sounds I was looking for, and he selected the grades of tubes based on that. He was also really helpful and knowledgable. I will buy from him again definately.

Never used Doug's, but I have talked with him before, and the set of tubes he recommended to me for several different amps were basically the same, and are basically the same as the sets I've seen him recommend to others too.

Another good store is the Tube Depot, but for JJ's Eurotubes is tops.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I used ALL JJ's from Bob for several years. Bob at Eurotubes was wonderful to deal with. He sells good product. He's fair. He knows his stuff. And he sincerely cares about his customers and their tone.

That said.

The tubes I bought from Doug just slay the JJs. I REALLY like the Tung Sol in V1. I had an RFT in V3 but recently replaced it with the Penta Chinese from Doug - it kills! I tried all of the preamp tubes from Dougs preamp kit in every position. I just liked what he recommended. It suits my amp really well. Here's what I've got. (Mk. III - Blue Stripe...)

V1 - Tung Sol
V2 - JJ High Gain ECC83S (from Eurotubes!)
V3 - Penta Labs Chinese
V4 - Empty (who needs reverb?!)
V5 - Sovtek LPS
Inner Power Tubes - SED 6L6GC
Outter Power Tubes - JJ KT77 (From Eurotubes!)

Hey thanks guys. I appreciate all of the input. Actually I called Doug today based on Cameron's Mark III. I really liked the Tung-Sol & Penta mixture.

I bought the whole set, it was about $125 or so. This makes me cringe, since I usually pay about $5-$6 for a 12AX7, but lately, they have had a really high failure rate.


I do have a few JJ high-gains left that I got from Bob a few years ago. I really liked the guy, and the tubes sound great in my .50 Cal. I was looking for something different though for the DC-5.

FWIW: I really like the Mesa tubes in my DC-10. Jason, did you ever change them or are these the originals? They don't sound sterile like most of the Mesa Russian's that I've heard.

 

[nosajwp]

I never changed them...they are the originals. I'm suprised they sound as good as they do, because they are the Mesa-labeled Chinese 12AX7's and the Chinese STR 420's...I've never had good luck with these, but for some reason, that DC of yours loves them!

BTW - sent you a couple of emails today...

 

[dmt]

the tube store

It was really easy dealing with them. I gave them the specs for the tubes that I got from Mike B and thats what they gave me. Everything was real easy. I called dougs tubes and he kinda shrugged me off.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Yeah, Doug was kind of short with me. Until I mentioned Eurotubes, then he livened up and started talking a lot. There is no love lost there.

We'll see how I like them. Cam's amp sounds really great with the Doug mixture.

 

[edward]

Hi monsta,

Every experience I had with http://www.kcanostubes.com has been stellar!
Mike is a first-class guy, and he not only knows tubes, but knows amps and can help "size 'em up" if you will for your specific need. Lots of love for mike and kca over on TGP ...great guy!

Edward

 

[Esromeron]

Yeah, Doug was kind of short with me. Until I mentioned Eurotubes, then he livened up and started talking a lot. There is no love lost there.

I've had nothing but a great experience with Doug, but I've heard this from a few people lately. Hes most likely extremely busy nowadays, with so many people using him now. Hes probably doing 100 things at once, I couldn't imagine the amount of calls and e-mails he gets a day.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I figured he was busy, I could hear lots of other people on the phone in the background.


As for Mike...I used to belong to the Fender Forum. He can be extremely abrupt at times. Plus, I'm not all that sure that I want to fork over the dough for NOS tubes. I have a few that are good and love them, but I just can't bring myself to pay that much for a tube yet.

 

[phyrexia]

He can be extremely abrupt at times.

That's why I like him

Part of the reason we are stuck with shitty preamp tubes is that guitar players wanted to cheap out on everything. If we collectively denied the quality of the $5-10 12AX7, companies would build something better, but millions of people are happy to throw whatever crap they can get for cheapest into their amp. I'm not dogging you or anything for your choices, I'm just saying.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I just can't afford it though.

On the negative side of your theory, NOS tubes would increase more in value and price and most manufacturers would not change their specs or QC for quite some time. This would mean that many of us would have to buckle in and buy them anyway.


What I need to do is either build or purchase a great tube tester and keep buying them for cheap, but send the crap ones back. The problem that I have is that I have no way of really testing them right now, except in the real world environment of using an amp. I get them in bulk and they sit there until I can use them. My supplier has a 30 day return policy.

I would be willing to bet that this is how Doug & Bob both got their start.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

OK,

I just put them in and biased the amp up. What a huge freaking difference!

It's only 6 am here, so I can't crank it, but I really like what I'm hearing so far.



I was a little puzzled as to why he didn't give me a layout of the tubes though. Seems odd that someone would send out a bunch of different tubes and not tell you which positions they went in.

Luckily, you guys know your **** or I would have had to wait for him to return an email.


I'm gonna shut up and play my guitar now!!!!!!!!!!