EL-84s vs. 6L6s - Express 5:50 vs TA-30

[pusher]

I gig with an Express 5:50 that I love and I get a lot of comments about my tone. The only problem for me is the weight and my bad back.

So I went to GC and played with the TA-30 head through and EVM stocked single 12" cab pretty extensively. I could live with the layout and channel design and all that, but I felt that the tone seemed to me to be a little more brittle, more mids, less smooth and rounded. Is this due to the EL-84 tubes vs the 6L6's? It's entirely possible that I just didn't dial it in correctly. I was using channel 1 for my clean tones, and then read later that I should have used channel 2 to get the more chimey Fender tweed clean sounds.

Can anyone shed a little light on trading over from a 5:50 to a TA-30? I'm not into the British thing, and I like the smooth sound of my Express - both clean and bluesy, as well as the Stereo Preamp and 50/50 amp rack system I used to have - which I believe had 6L6's in it.

The light weight of the TA-30 is making me gas for it, but I don't want to start a doomed romance with the TA if it isn't meant to be.

Thoughts?

pusher

 

[HaggertysMusic]

I'm assuming you need to switch between a crystal clean fender-ish clean tone, and an overdriven bluesy tone? If so, the TA-30 is probably not going to do it for you, unless you absolutely love the british vox sound, which you said you didn't.

Channel 2 Tweed will get much closer to the clean sound you're used to on the Express 5:50. That means you're going to have to use Top Boost in Ch 1 for your overdrive, which is my favorite sound in the TA series, but you have to have a soft spot for those pushed vox sounds. If you don't, you won't be happy with it.

The Express really seems like it's the right amp for you. To be honest, I think you would like the Mini Rectifier too. It's lacking the reverb you're used to, but it's surprisingly versatile and there are a lot of really great reverb pedals you can stick into the loop. Don't ignore the Mini Rec simply because of the Rectifiers metal heritage. They can do a lot.

 

[pusher]

Thanks for the reply. I think you just validated what I was thinking. Your assumption was dead-on. I only switch from crystal clean to bluesy with the amp. If I need anything heaver, I use a pedal. I'll look into the mini rectifiers. I'm not familiar with them.

You seem to be the right person to ask; weight wise - do you think it makes sense to swap into a 5:50 head and cab configuration? At 38 lbs, the head alone is still no lightweight though.

I actually love my Express. I wish Mesa would come out with a 6L6 version of the TA-30. It's what I need.

Thanks again,

pusher.

 

[MBJunkie]

Pusher,

I do agree to some extent with Haggerty's response.....especially based on your preferences to not being into the "british sounds", and definitely highly respect Don's input without question regardless.

However, the cleans offered in Ch1 (Vox imitation channel if you will) of my TA30 112 combo in both the "Normal and Top Boost Modes" of the TA30 , can be set to sound delicious!!

Of course, the "Top Boost" circuit of the TA30 can also provide the iconic Vox high gain "clean and urgent crunch tone" like no other IMO.....which Don considers to be his favorite of the amp. I tend to agree with you Don!! :mrgreen:

The TA30 also offers an awesome clean sound out of the Ch2 "Tweed Mode" which is probably closer to what you would expect from the cleans of your 5:50. However, the TA30 also offers the H1 mode in Ch2 which sounds awesome for nice high gain crunch and even lead solo playing (but yes, it is British voiced....think Marshall crunch/solo) which you may or may not like as well as your 5:50. Personally, I love the H1 mode of the TA30! The H2 mode offered with the TA is the "so called" American Boogie high gain sound, but honestly is my least favorite mode of the amp so far. It may be that I am so used to the awesome high gain Mark sounds that I can achieve out of my MkV that I am spoiled and expect too much out of H2 of the TA30? I can still achieve some good tones out of this mode.....just not my preference.

FWIW, I also used to own a 5:50 Express 112 combo which I thought was overall a good amp. If it works for you best......great! I just wanted to point out that IMO I prefer my TA30 combo over my 5:50 without question. Maybe you should give the TA30 combo a try prior to final judgement.

BTW...I am also interested in auditioning the Mini Recto as well, but not to replace my TA30. Don's great video demoing the Mini Recto was excellent and has definitely provided me with a desire to audition the Mini Recto in person. One thing to note....the Mini Recto also utilizes EL-84's power tubes which is not a bad thing to me, but may be to you.

 

[twally]

Have you tried an Express 5:25 with 12" speaker? It has an identical preamp section but uses EL-84's for the power section versus the 6L6's your 5:50 uses.

It has great clean and bluesy sounds and weighs about 10 pounds less.

 

[HaggertysMusic]

You seem to be the right person to ask; weight wise - do you think it makes sense to swap into a 5:50 head and cab configuration? At 38 lbs, the head alone is still no lightweight though.

Probably not, although I think you would experience a tonal benefit by going with the Express Head and something like a 1x12 widebody cab.

I wish Mesa would come out with a 6L6 version of the TA-30. It's what I need.

To be honest, I don't think that would solve the problem! IMHO power tube swaps make only a subtle difference at best. That's contrary to what people on the internet will tell you! The amplifier design is what makes the difference. If you put EL34's in a Rectifier it doesn't magically transform into a Marshall. The Mini Rec is a great example. Even with EL84's, it still sounds like any other Rectifier, with only some subtle differences. With the Mark V, I hardly notice any difference in sound when you stick 34's in it.

The Royal Atlantic is another example. Stick 6L6's in it and it becomes thinner, less full, which is exactly the opposite of what you would expect from 6L6's.

I'm not saying power tubes don't make ANY difference, but that a power tube swap won't completely turn one amp into another, totally different amp. I believe a Transatlantic with 6L6's will still sound like a Transatlantic. :wink:

 

[gonzo]

THROW SOMETHING ELSE INTO THE MIX HERE...


if you love the sound of the 5:50, but hate the weight....(i'm assuming it's a combo)

why not get someone to build you a custom headshell (does GTS do this? his work is excellent.......)

and turn it into a head only.

find a really lightweight 1x12 cabinet (i like the Avatar vintage closed back, you can get it with a removable panel to make it a half-open back, similar to the combo)

my cab is pretty lightweight.
find a good lightweight speaker that sounds right....

voila, two-piece rig that's easy to carry.
and custom, at that.

you look good in purple snake skin.
LOL

 

[pusher]

That custom head shell is not a bad idea. I'll look into it.

After hearing the advice on this thread, I decided not to go with the TA-30. It doesn't seem to be the right fit. Great comment about swapping tubes not necessarily changing the sound. I guess I meant that I wish Mesa would make a TA that was crafted to sound more like the 5:50. That smooth california sound. . .

I guess I'm going to suck it up for right now and lug the thing around. If I could do a swap and have a head/cab combo, I would do it though.

I know this is heresy, but what about buying a light weight Fender Blues Deluxe/Deville or some 30 - 40 watt tube amp just for those living room jams? Do any of you have something small that you grab when you aren't playing with a full band? Like 30 pounds or so?

Anything decent sounding that is light weight?

Thanks for your thoughts,

pusher

 

[BostonRedSox]

That custom head shell is not a bad idea. I'll look into it.

After hearing the advice on this thread, I decided not to go with the TA-30. It doesn't seem to be the right fit. Great comment about swapping tubes not necessarily changing the sound. I guess I meant that I wish Mesa would make a TA that was crafted to sound more like the 5:50. That smooth california sound. . .

I guess I'm going to suck it up for right now and lug the thing around. If I could do a swap and have a head/cab combo, I would do it though.

I know this is heresy, but what about buying a light weight Fender Blues Deluxe/Deville or some 30 - 40 watt tube amp just for those living room jams? Do any of you have something small that you grab when you aren't playing with a full band? Like 30 pounds or so?

Anything decent sounding that is light weight?

Thanks for your thoughts,

pusher

If I'm just playing at home, then I like to use Apple's Amp Designer. This way I get lots of different amps/pedals to use. It also sounds great and allows me to record any ideas I have quickly.

I also have a Royal Atlantic, which sounds AMAZING for home usage. That amp usually stays at practice though! So heavy!

 

[dodger916]

THROW SOMETHING ELSE INTO THE MIX HERE...


if you love the sound of the 5:50, but hate the weight....(i'm assuming it's a combo)

why not get someone to build you a custom headshell (does GTS do this? his work is excellent.......)

and turn it into a head only.LOL

+1. I did this a few years ago with my Mark IV and never looked back. Much easier to move and load, easier to test other speakers, etc.. At age 54 and with a funky back, I simply can't imagine lugging a Mesa combo anymore! Plus, this config will protect the tubes from the thump of the combo speaker. It's a great suggestion, and I'd wager George (gts) can build you one.

 

[MBJunkie]

Pusher,

All posters are providing good input and possible options to consider IMO.
Here is another thing you might consider seeing that you (and others) are loving the sounds that you are achieving from your 5:50 (combo, I assume).

MB offers an excellent caster design on their heavier combo's that quickly and easily snap on and off for easier transportation. Clearly, you still have to lift the amp in/out of vehicles, but these casters are really nice when I need to carry my amp a long distance to set up. Once I get it to the stage I do remove the casters allowing my amp to set firmly on the stage, but it is very easy to do with the MB design.

The reason I mention this is that you are very happy with your tone as is......caster addition would not change your tone (as long as you remove them on stage) and may make for easier transportation of your amp.

Just a thought to consider.

 

[BostonRedSox]

The caster advice is quite good. They are a godsend with my Royal 2x12. The thing weighs 80lbs or so.

 

[pusher]

Yep, I have casters on my amp; they're just the Home Depot kind, though. Not removable. I wonder if that makes a big difference in tone. I get so much bass out of my amp as it is right now. I have the bass dialed down to about 7 o'clock for my strat, and even lower for my semi-hollow.

I've been doing some online research on custom cabs for just the head. Around $550 to $850 from what I've seen so far. I plan on calling Mesa on Monday just to check prices.

Example:

http://www.bratkat.com

He said that the size is that same as the MK III-IV - 17". It's all high end wood, though.

Thanks guys, I'm appreciating the advice.

pusher

 

[pusher]

Yep, I have casters on my amp; they're just the Home Depot kind, though. Not removable. I wonder if that makes a big difference in tone. I get so much bass out of my amp as it is right now. I have the bass dialed down to about 7 o'clock for my strat, and even lower for my semi-hollow.

I've been doing some online research on custom cabs for just the head. Around $550 to $850 from what I've seen so far. I plan on calling Mesa on Monday just to check prices.

Example:

http://www.bratkat.com

He said that the size is that same as the MK III-IV - 17". It's all high end wood, though.

Thanks guys, I'm appreciating the advice.

pusher

 

[MBJunkie]

Pusher,

Given your latest reply....My advice to you is to just stay with what you got!!
Seriously, you have already mentioned that you love the tone that you are achieving playing your 5:50!! You have also mentioned that you have received nice compliments regarding your tone from people in attendance at your gigs!! :mrgreen:

Please take my opinion toward removal of casters on stage as just being my preference! There is certainly nothing wrong with playing through any combo amp with casters on stage!! I do feel that having a combo amp setting firmly on the floor enhances the "lows", but it sounds to me like you are already achieving the bass frequencies you are after.

It sounds to me that you are already achieving great excellent sounds through your 5:50 with whatever you are doing. At the end of the day....that is what I believe all of us strive for while playing live or at home.

Anyhow, my final suggestion to you is to just "MAN UP" and haul that baby around!! :mrgreen:

p.s. Honestly, I consider the 5:50 112 combo to be one of the lightest good sounding amps that MB offers.

 

[pusher]

I get it, I get it. You're right! I should man up.

Keeping things in perspective: Aren't we lucky to have these kinds of problems? We get to play through kick-ass amps and buy ourselves nice toys once in a while.

I should be a bit more humble, I guess. There are people with a lot less. . . playing through Behringer amps and all sorts of atrocious gear.

I feel like a douche. Waaaaaahhhhh, my Ferrari isn't a convertible! . . . Sheeesh.

Thanks very much for the advice and kind words. This is a great crowd. I'm going to go put my awesome amp in 5w mode and play some soulful blues now. . .

Happy Thanksgiving to you all,

pusher

 

[BostonRedSox]

I get it, I get it. You're right! I should man up.

Keeping things in perspective: Aren't we lucky to have these kinds of problems? We get to play through kick-ass amps and buy ourselves nice toys once in a while.

I should be a bit more humble, I guess. There are people with a lot less. . . playing through Behringer amps and all sorts of atrocious gear.

I feel like a douche. Waaaaaahhhhh, my Ferrari isn't a convertible! . . . Sheeesh.

Thanks very much for the advice and kind words. This is a great crowd. I'm going to go put my awesome amp in 5w mode and play some soulful blues now. . .

Happy Thanksgiving to you all,

pusher

I get what you are saying and all, but Behringer's really aren't atrocious sounding at all. Really, at the end of the day, a good player, with a good guitar, can make a lot of so-called lesser quality amps sound amazing. It's all about the chops and technique.

A touch of reverb, compression and delay also helps!

 

[pusher]

Sorry, that was a cheap shot.

I meant to say Digitech. :mrgreen:

Kidding, kidding. That's called humor.

What's more important is the point I was trying to convey. Any comment about that?

 

[edward]

Sorry, but the "removable casters" comment dragged me in here. I have had these Mesa casters for well over a decade now and they are great ...for exactly the reasons already stated. BUT, they still don't obviate the sheer grunt required to lift a heavy amp in/out of a car. I'm no burly man, but I am fit. "Man up"?? ...c'mon bro!!! I am now also getting on in years, and this is just the stark reality: getting my Boogie DC5 112 combo in/out of the SUV is requiring a more concerted effort on my part. But I love the tone. All this to say the head/cab solution is one I will likely be exploring when I finally get tired of all the lifting. Meanwhile, I am making do, bending at the knees, and always aware of how to nurse the back so as to prevent a health calamity; but the day will come. Just sayin...

Edward

 

[pusher]

Amen, brother. My back is getting worse, not better. I use a small luggage cart to move my 5:50 and pedal bag, even for shorter distances. The casters are great once you're inside usually, but on the street or pavement, I'm scared that the tons of vibrations getting to the tubes is just asking for trouble.

Here's my solution: I'm getting ready to order a custom head cab from Mather Amp Cabinets http://mathercab.com/

From Mather recently:
"Price for a head shell (Express 5:50) with any standard Boogie vinyl & grill will be $245 plus $25 shipping to **my town**. We rout a cutout in the bottom of the headshells (like Boogie) to ensure room for the reverb tank. Please add $30 for leather corners and $15 for a wicker grill. Price for a matching unloaded half back 1x12 extension cab will be $295 - $365 (depending on final cosmetic choices) plus $40 shipping."

I think I can get a better deal on an unloaded speaker cab through EBay, but it probably won't match. I'm going to get a better cart, too. So it's just the times when there are stairs that I'll end up carrying everything.

The combined weight of the separate head and cab will probably be more than the combo, but the benefit is that your lifting less weight at once. I heard that you get better sound with separate pieces because the speaker vibrations don't affect the tubes as much. Does anyone know if that's true?

pusher