effects loop question

[Enchilada Jones]

I'm waiting for delivery of my MarkV, never owned a Mesa before so I'm trying to prepare as much as possible while waiting.
I plan to run an AxeFx Ultra in a 4 cable set up using the AxeFx for effects only most of the time. There will be times when I want to use the amp models in the AxeFx which leads to my question....
With other serial loop type amps I could plug something like the AxeFx into the effects return (not in 4 cable mode, nothing from the amps effect send was used..) and it would eliminate the amps pre-amp stage using only the amps power section to amplify the output of the AxeFx. With some there was nothing in the signal path, with others some EQ controls were post effects return so they would come into play.
How does the MarkV work in this regard?

My hope is I could have some presets in the AxeFx that don't make use of the MarkV's effect send signal and instead just send the whole patch into the MarkV's effects return making the AxeFx the whole preamp stage for that particular preset.

 

[SteveO]

The preamp and EQs are all before the loop, so you could easily use the power section only behind Axe-FX patches if you choose to. I have done the same thing with a GSP1101 in four cable, it works well.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

The preamp and EQs are all before the loop, so you could easily use the power section only behind Axe-FX patches if you choose to. I have done the same thing with a GSP1101 in four cable, it works well.

Sweet! Thanks!
Do you find the presets on your GSP1101 sound very different when you use it that way or does the power section of the Boogie and your cab leave the character of the model relatively unchanged?

 

[SteveO]

The preamp and EQs are all before the loop, so you could easily use the power section only behind Axe-FX patches if you choose to. I have done the same thing with a GSP1101 in four cable, it works well.

Sweet! Thanks!
Do you find the presets on your GSP1101 sound very different when you use it that way or does the power section of the Boogie and your cab leave the character of the model relatively unchanged?

It depends on how the 1101 is set up. In the output configuration menu you can select your target output, such as a power amp, a combo loop return, a mixer, etc, and it EQs itself accordingly. Running a modeler into the power section of any amp will yield different results than through a full-range rig or headphones. I had no issues with what came out of my cab, but some people will be more nit-picky than I am.

 

[fredster]

I'm using an AxeFx Standard 4CM style, here's what I found. The loop in the Mark V isn't 100% series. There's still a very small amount of signal that runs parallel through the loop that you can't get rid of. This is very annoying when running at low volumes, as the direct signal through the AFX is slightly behind the residual signal. We're talking probably less than a millisecond, but it's enough to make it kinda out-of-phase sounding. It's very slight and it might not even bother you, but here's how I dialed it out. Using this example setup (on the right):

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/index.php?title=File:Connections2.jpg

FX send from amp full up
Input 1 on the Axe just before clipping
Output 1 on the Axe full on.

The master volume will be very low, but the residual signal is minimized. Then again, the Ultra has a little more processor than the standard, so maybe you might not see this at all. I'd be interested to see if that's true.

Oh, and if you can completely just use the power section for the AxeFX.

Good luck!

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Thanks for the tips fredster.
I'm curious, are you saying I might experience the 'parallel' signal to the MkV's loop at low volume even if, for example, I am using the Axe in 4CM, (as per your diagram on the right side) and only had a single effect running on the Axe like a delay and that delay block was located post MkV's send?
Or was that something that pops up only when you have the Axe sending nothing into the MkV's input and the Axe is acting as the preamp and all the Axe's blocks are all post MkV's effects send?

 

[fredster]

I'm curious, are you saying I might experience the 'parallel' signal to the MkV's loop at low volume even if, for example, I am using the Axe in 4CM, (as per your diagram on the right side) and only had a single effect running on the Axe like a delay and that delay block was located post MkV's send?

Yep, that's what I'm saying, at least that's what I experienced. But, once you get things balanced it's no problem at all. And again, you might not notice this at all - I'm just sharing what I found. It's a great amp, and even though I have the option of using the AxeFX amp sims in the loop, I still haven't really found the need to!