ED owner considering the Mark V

[YellowJacket]

Yes the thread was started because I was specifically looking at the Mark V, but YellowJacket brought some great things to my attention about the Dual Recitifier. And I think that's great, it's good to consider all my options (even if I had written off the Dual after my experience with the Triple Rec).

Come on, the 10watt option on the Mark V is ace for practicing at home!! You can pair it up with a 20watt speaker in a 1 x 12 for home use!!

Yes, I think you should try out some other amps. A few I can think of: Soldano SLO or other flavour of Soldano. Not good clean but the dirt SLAYS! Peavey 6505. Orange Rocker 50. Bogner Ecstasy. You can also try out a Marshall JCM2000 DSL for some pretty awesome crunch tones. They sound great running with a Mesa Rectocab. There are far more epic high gain heads even than these. For Dual Rectifiers look at the 2 channel Rev F or G. Also check out the Reborn version. Be aware that the c90 / v30 speaker combo really mitigates the fizz.

Also, I'm serious. LOOK INTO PICKUPS!!!!!!!!! They can have a pretty drastic effect on tone.

 

[DWAKO]

I'll take a look at all that you suggested. I've always been turned off by the 6505 because of it's lack of flexibility and it seems to mask the natural sound of your guitar. It's a great metal amp, but I want at least a little variety. Oranges are solid heads but nothing extraordinary jumped out at me. A Soldano Decatone would be great, and a Framus Dragon is also pretty appealing. I have failed to mention I did own a Bogner Uberschall for a while, great high gain amp, but it had some hissy over tones that bothered the heck out of me. The Mark V and RA-100 are definitely at the top of my list to try out.

As far as pickups go my main set are the Dimarzio D activators (not X's) and they're pretty great, they have a very focused sound. Also I use EMG X's (85/60) in my other guitar and don't confuse them with standard EMGs. They are very organic and natural sounding with no harshness or compression like the standard EMGs. I really did like the Bare Knuckles Nailbomb Modern Metal setting, definitely more of the tone I'm going for. I may need to try them out in the future.

 

[YellowJacket]

I'll take a look at all that you suggested. I've always been turned off by the 6505 because of it's lack of flexibility and it seems to mask the natural sound of your guitar. It's a great metal amp, but I want at least a little variety. Oranges are solid heads but nothing extraordinary jumped out at me. A Soldano Decatone would be great, and a Framus Dragon is also pretty appealing. I have failed to mention I did own a Bogner Uberschall for a while, great high gain amp, but it had some hissy over tones that bothered the heck out of me. The Mark V and RA-100 are definitely at the top of my list to try out.

As far as pickups go my main set are the Dimarzio D activators (not X's) and they're pretty great, they have a very focused sound. Also I use EMG X's (85/60) in my other guitar and don't confuse them with standard EMGs. They are very organic and natural sounding with no harshness or compression like the standard EMGs. I really did like the Bare Knuckles Nailbomb Modern Metal setting, definitely more of the tone I'm going for. I may need to try them out in the future.

What you're hearing with the Nailbomb is a much more 'modern' sounding amp such as a Dual Rectifier, ENGL, etc. The Mark V doesn't do that uber scooped single note stuff quite like a more 'modern' sounding head. It is much more focused, tight, and articulate.

 

[DWAKO]

What you're hearing with the Nailbomb is a much more 'modern' sounding amp such as a Dual Rectifier, ENGL, etc. The Mark V doesn't do that uber scooped single note stuff quite like a more 'modern' sounding head. It is much more focused, tight, and articulate.

That is the type of tone I tend to gravitate toward. In that case I need to add the roadster to the list of amps to try. I've heard it's darker than the standard rectifier, does this mean less fizz? Now I beginning to think I won't like the RA-100 as much as previously thought, it's supposed to be high gain but still with a vintage voice. I have amp ADD right now... I just need to make a Guitar Center run this weekend.

 

[theroan]

I would wait for the RA-100 before committing to the Mark V. You'll have an American clean, brit gain and more gain than the ED.

 

[YellowJacket]

That is the type of tone I tend to gravitate toward. In that case I need to add the roadster to the list of amps to try. I've heard it's darker than the standard rectifier, does this mean less fizz? Now I beginning to think I won't like the RA-100 as much as previously thought, it's supposed to be high gain but still with a vintage voice. I have amp ADD right now... I just need to make a Guitar Center run this weekend.

In my experience, low volume v30 speakers are as much to blame for fizz as the Dual Recto is. I find putting v30s and c90s in an X pattern mitigates the problem substantially. Listen, if all else fails you can always try this:

http://www.voodooamps.com/home/Modifications/AMPMODIFICATIONS/MesaMods/DualRectifier2Channel/tabid/134/Default.aspx

With Dual Rectifiers going used for $800 - $1100, you can get the mod along with shipping for less than a new amp. You can pick up one of the original 3 channel heads and have it shipped out there. The best thing is that they inspect the amps before modding them so you are assured to have a properly working amp.

 

[DWAKO]

In my experience, low volume v30 speakers are as much to blame for fizz as the Dual Recto is. I find putting v30s and c90s in an X pattern mitigates the problem substantially. Listen, if all else fails you can always try this:

http://www.voodooamps.com/home/Modifica ... fault.aspx

With Dual Rectifiers going used for $800 - $1100, you can get the mod along with shipping for less than a new amp. You can pick up one of the original 3 channel heads and have it shipped out there. The best thing is that they inspect the amps before modding them so you are assured to have a properly working amp.

I've considered that, I've also looked at FJA mods. He seems to do great business at a reasonable price, he's significantly cheaper than Voodoo and I've heard his quality of work is up to par. It's definitely an option.

 

[YellowJacket]

I just did a 'recording' of my setup with a Zoom H2. You can hear the pick loud and clear though. You'd be surprised how it sounds, I think. I'll try and edit into something cogent.

 

[MBJunkie]

Just to set the record straight...I too like YellowJacket's input and insight into this thread and am in agreement with his assessment toward the amps that I own or have owned.

I hope that I didn't come across differently....if so I apologize.....it was not my intent.

OP: By all means, play through as many different amps as possible before laying down a bunch of cash.

I absolutely love my MkV, but am also interested in trying out the new RA and the TA-30 when they become available. I would also love to have the opportunity to audition the Bogner 20th anniversary Shiva, and many other amps from "boutique" amp manufacturers, but do not have that luxury in my local.

Best of luck in your tone quest search!

 

[MBJunkie]

DWACO:

I did an A/B comparison of Ch3 with my MkIV widebody combo and my MkV combo following the suggested settings provided in the MkV manual several months ago and posted my opinions in this forum.

My conclusions were that my MkV can closely mimick my MkIV sounds in Ch3 (when following the suggested settings in the MkV manual), but my V also offers many other great sounds in Ch3 that I have not been able to achieve with my IV.

The V also offers a much wider variety of great sounds in Ch1 & Ch2, and definitely provides much more flexibility than my IV. I really appreciate the footswitchable solo boost and reverb on/off features offered on the V when playing live. I also really like the choice of GEQ or PEQ for each channel on the V......the list goes on and on.

Bottom line....the IV is a great amp in it's own right, but the V is so much better for my needs and really sounds great! :mrgreen:

BTW.....I still own my MkIV....I just don't play it very often since owning my V!

 

[Neptical]

Now just to play devils advocate... :twisted: I'm also looking at the Mark IV. Obviously the Mark V has a IV setting but I have read in my research there is still a difference between the IV mode and the actual Mark IV. I don't want to assume the V is a better fit just because it's newer.

+1,000 on the Mark IV amp. I like how the IV sounds alot. It's got that nice tight warm compression going. The amp has tons of crunch and very fluid in the lead department. Cleans are great as well. Funny you mentioned LOG and DR;I think in their Mark IV phases were some of their best tones. I like the Mark V--but it's got more of a modern grit to it. The nice thing about the V is all the options/features which makes it more of a selling point--not that it can't deliver, but may be the advantage for one over the other. The IV has so many tonal options itself that you'd still be finding tones in that box for ages to come. I guess what it boils down to are your expectations and what you want to do with it.

~Nep~

 

[DWAKO]

YellowJacket, thank you so much for the demos, you definitely have a very clear sounding recto and it really is making me think hard about getting one, but this is what happened today....

I walked into Guitar Center with the mindset of "I'm probably going to throw my ED on eBay today." I went into the loud room and they conveniently had a Roadster and a Rectifier Reborn (Triple) set up. First I played the roadster and I really like some of the tones I was able to get out of it. I really liked the Brit setting on the 2nd channel, I just wish I could get more gain out of it. But my guess is that setting would sound great with pedals in front. I liked Channels 3 & 4; a very aggressive wall of sound (especially on the modern setting). But... The hiss drove me crazy. Now I remember why I didn't stick with my Triple Rec, admittedly it was a lot less buzz that I was excepting. I dialed a lot of it out and played through a G75 Marshall cab which helped, but it was still there. If I get a recto I'll have to get it modded or else I'll pull my hair out because that is literally my only dislike about the gain settings. The Reborn was a solid amp, didn't like it quite as much as the roadster, but still sounded good. Then I moved to a Mark V, I spent about an hour and half with it. I got the hang of the amp pretty quickly after watching all of the YouTube videos, I even tried the suggested settings. I really liked it, it wasn't as thick as I hoped but I really liked the extreme setting. Conveniently there was an Electra Dyne 2X12 combo next to it, after playing the Mark V a while I thought I would compare just for the heck of it. The instant I flipped on the ED I instant remember why I bought it in the first place, it's such s huge, thick, punchy tone... It was at that point I realized I need to wait for the RA-100 and compare that to the ED. I guess the grass is always greener... I would like to spend more time with the Mark V, but at this point I'm still leaning toward hanging on to my ED, at least for a while, I just wish it had more gain. But again this is what makes the RA-100 more appealing right now.

 

[YellowJacket]

YellowJacket, thank you so much for the demos, you definitely have a very clear sounding recto and it really is making me think hard about getting one, but this is what happened today....

Well ya, but it is as much the cab and the guitar as it is the Dual Rectifier. The new electronics / 50s style wiring make a huge difference and the pickups are the biggest contributing factor. My friend tried my rig with a Duncan Dimebag Darryl Sig pickup and it got syrupy when he tried to crank the gain. Granted, he likes to crank the gain WAY up, maybe further than it should go! The cab is definitely killer tight, it just sounded really warm, fuzzy, and thick with his guitar. It lost the clear chainsaw quality my axe has.

For cost, keep in mind for my setup you'd spend approx $400 on pickups and electronics as well as $900 for the 2 x 12 cab. That is $1,300. For a Mills 4 x 12 it is more - over $1,000 - but those cabs are DEFINITELY worth considering.

As an aside, the old 2 channel Duals are 'reputed' as being way less fizzy. Let me tell you, the amp does still fizz at bedroom levels, something which I think is the product of v30 speakers. In my demo clip, I had it 'just' a hair louder than the fizzing tone, so you can definitely hear that it is a product of VERY low volume playing. The v30 + the c90 really mitigates the problem. I know I was running my stuff quiet in my demo clip, but when I crank it up, it still sounds like a chainsaw!

I'm not surprised by your reaction to the Mark V but this is only because of what you told me you wanted for a tone. BUT the Mark V definitely has a tonne of gain on tap. Thin sounding?!? Think about pickups.

. . . this point I'm still leaning toward hanging on to my ED, at least for a while, I just wish it had more gain. But again this is what makes the RA-100 more appealing right now.

Well, I don't own an ED so I don't know about any potential solutions that I can confirm will work. I think that using something like 6550 tubes would potentially increase clean headroom which is what you want. I just don't know how it would affect the tonality. Having higher efficiency speakers will help with gigging headroom as well, as we discussed earlier.

One great solution. If you listen through my Recto clips and then listen to the Steve Stevens clip on the BareKnuckle website you will note two things. 1) he's a way better guitarist =-p 2) the tone of both our rigs sounds suspiciously similar. He's using an 18watt Roccaforte amp and I'm running a dual recto. The point is that pickups are a pretty integral part of the signal chain.
I'd say getting something like the Bare Knuckle Painkillers will help give you more gain with the ED because the output is higher and more focused, particularly in the midrange. The more modern tonal quality of the pickups will affect the ED since it is a fairly transparent amp. Even my slightly less powerful Rebel Yells really pushed the front end of the Electra Dyne plenty hard and it developed this sweet bite in the high end it did not have while using a stock Les Paul. With the Stiletto 4 x 12, we blew everybody out of the music store. This is with the master at 9:00 and the amp set to 45watts. Are you SURE it isn't the G12T - 75s that are crunching hard when the amp is cranked!? ( I wouldn't know, I haven't cranked an Electra Dyne yet. In all the gigs I did, I never had to turn the master on my Dual Rectifier over 10:00)

If all else fails, why not get the Electra Dyne modded for more gain? I guess you want Vintage Hi as a 'rhythm' channel and you want something more 'melt your face off' for lead playing!?

Personally, even with my current setup I would rather an Electra Dyne but I'm in no position to trade up. My stuff works for me so I keep practicing. After all, it is in the fingers. Furthermore, the Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells clean up really well so when I roll my volume knob back to 8:00 I can get some really great tones that sound much more vintage. A VERY usable setup to be sure!

 

[DWAKO]

The gain mod idea is definitely a possibility, and to clarify GC only had a Mark V combo in stock and thin wasn't the right word, I guess my ears are used to the thick low end of the ED, which anyone who has played one knows the amount of low end it has. Also I never realized how loud the ED really is in comparison to other amplifiers, I felt weird turning the master volume anywhere past 9:00. As a result of today I definitely appreciate my dyne more, but I'm still open to the idea of finding something better to suit my needs more.

 

[YellowJacket]

What guitars and pickups are you running again? I seriously think swapping pickups to Bare Knuckle Painkillers will make a substantial difference for you.

Also, check out some Soldano heads. You might be surprised. (they just won't have cleans like a Mesa though)

 

[DWAKO]

The main pickups I use are Dimarzio D Activators, they are well balanced with high output. My back up has EMG X's (85X and 60X) they both sound killer im the neck and bridge so I swap them depending on my mood. But I'm open to trying new things, I've heard great things about Bare Knuckles pickups from Misha Mansoor of Periphery, so I've wanted to at least try them out.

I've always wanted to try out a Soldano Decatone, I think I would really like it.

 

[YellowJacket]

The main pickups I use are Dimarzio D Activators, they are well balanced with high output. My back up has EMG X's (85X and 60X) they both sound killer im the neck and bridge so I swap them depending on my mood. But I'm open to trying new things, I've heard great things about Bare Knuckles pickups from Misha Mansoor of Periphery, so I've wanted to at least try them out.

I've always wanted to try out a Soldano Decatone, I think I would really like it.

Yes, the Bare Knuckles are just clearer sounding than your average high end pickup. These things are definitely boutique and they are scatterwound with slightly mismatched coils which gives them a bite in the high end as well as a very even harmonic response. What guitar do you own? I'm sure you could tell the difference in my rig before with the stock Les Paul pickups and Rectocab and then with the Mills copy and the Bare Knuckle Pickups. HUGE difference.

Definitely try the Soldano!! That may be exactly what you want!

 

[DWAKO]

I definitely have spent sometime researching amplifiers that best suit the sound I want. My band recently tracked our new EP this past week and I brought my Electra Dyne into the studio to see how it would fair in a recording setting. We ran it through our producer's (Kellen McGreggor fron the band Memphis May Fire if you pay attention to heavier music) Rectifer cab and ran a line out into a cab simulator. It sounded good (as the ED always does), but his main complaint was that it naturally was saturated, but still lacked gain or that "modern" articulation. (as gain and saturation are not synonymous). Its a Vintage tone monster, but it doesnt do modern tones well (not that expect it too, since it was made for vintage tones) So we decided to try out his Fryette Pittbull and compare tones. I was blown away by the Pittbull's sound! It was so thick, punchy, and articulate! Sadly It has always been an amp I never paid much attention too because it wasn't "Mesa". Our producer is looking at trying something different (possibly get an endorsement from Splawn), so I may end up selling the ED and buy his Pittbull from him. It sucks it's not Mesa because I've always been loyal to them; they are such a great company; but ultimately it's not the label, it's what sounds best to my ears and the Pittbull is my personal preference at the moment. I still want to check out the RA-100, but I'm doubting I'll like it more than the Pittbull.