dual rectifier vs. marshall jvm410 h

[metalhead51105]

hey guys,
so i've been dealing with some killer gas lately which might be affecting where my head is but right now i'm playing through a mesa dual rectifier and a marshall 1960b cab with the stock 75s. now when i first tried the rectifier i thought it was absolutely perfect for me (used with a boogie rectifier cab when tested) but with the 75s i'm beginning to hate the shrill harshness coming from my rig. an easy fix for this would be to use the rectifier cab with my setup but even then there is no way i could crank the amp to a volume to hold a decent tone live or at practice so i'm beginning whats the point of having an amp capable of awesome tone but won't give it to me unless i'm shaking the walls and killing the mix live. so i spent a couple hours at the candy store (aka Guitar center) and finally brought myself to play a jvm410h (avoided it to save myself from getting greedy) and needless to say i thought it was much easier to dial in and even at lower volumes sounded worlds better than MY dual rec setup. the versatility was definately something to raise an eyebrow about. and of course i really was diggin the tone. here's my scenerio. i could buy a rectifier cab now and keep my marshall cab for future investment in a marshall as eventually i would like to own both the rectifier and something a bit more marshall-esque; or i could trade in the dual rectifier head and get the jvm head and play it through my marshall cab and if need be buy the dual rec setup when i'm actually able to actually let the beast go instead of constantly trying to tame the rabid animal and subsequently sounding like ***. long story short, those who have owned the jvm the dual rectifier or both let me know about your experiences with these amps. i understand both these amps are two different animals in terms of tone and tone is subjective but just wanted to know why some of you have loved or hated either one of these amps.
thanks
tony

 

[scottkahn]

If you're playing in a typical hard rock situation, you should be able to get beautiful tone from your DR at a reasonable level i.e. 10:00-11:00 on the master volume.

Two things -- do you have a half-power switch on your DR? This will let you push the tubes harder at a lower volume and still get great tone.

Also... rather than switch amps, downsize your cabinet to a Mesa/Boogie 2x12. You will still get thunderous tone that projects with depth, and you'll be able to push the tubes harder at a more manageable volume. Plus, it's easier to gig with .

I have played more Boogies and Marshalls than I can keep track of. Personally, I love the sound of the G12T75 speakers in a Marshall cabinet over the sound of V30s, which are in Boogie cabinets. They have a definite tighter response, more modern, less vintage. You may prefer the looser feel of the V30s, which you'd get in a Boogie 2x12 or 4x12. But really, I'd say get a 2x12 before you switch amps. That's sort of an absurd solution. If you're content to switch from a Boogie to a Marshall just like that, then you haven't become one with your tone yet.

 

[metalhead51105]

verrrry true ... i'll give the 2x12 a shot cause its cheaper and worst case scenerio i have a 2x12 w/ v30s AND the 1960b with 75s and i'd still switch heads plus when i have the money i could use the 1960b 4x12 with the jvm and the 2x12 with the recifier. thanks for the suggestion i'll give it a shot of course. either way other feedback and/or suggestions are welcome
tony

 

[scottkahn]

For what it's worth, the guys at Mesa/Boogie pick the Rectifier 2x12 cabinet as their #1 favorite cabinet.

My other guitarist and I just switched to these so that we can have more manageable volume at rehearsal, recording, and live when playing smaller stages. We have our 4x12 cabinets for the larger venues. You may find 2x12 to be just the ticket!

I also own and love a Marshall 1936a, which is a 2x12 but with the G12T75 speakers. With my Road King, I can switch between this and my Boogie 2x12 on a per-channel basis if I want, which is pretty cool since the response of the speakers is so different.

 

[clutch71]

My thought is this...the 410 has some nice features. 4 channels, to footswitchable volumes, 12 modes, two loops, the best reverb I've ever heard on an amp and midi capabilities. If you have that kind of cash to drop then fine. If not, I recommend DSL 50. 2 channels 4 modes. It's based on the plexi and hotrodded JCM 800. My only complaint is the reverb is crap and it shares an eq and both channels are voiced way different. But all for modes are usable and have their own niche.

Aside from the classic era Marshalls, it is one of the most loved amps on that forum. They are dirt cheap and readily available. Looking through CL or fleabay you could find one for $650-$750 (add a 100 for the DSL100) in great shape. I'd say sell your 1960a cab (lot of guys like them but I prefer Mesa's cabs) and get a 4x12 rectifier slant and straight. Plop the DSL 50 on the Slant and DR on the straight and you'll be good to hook. I bet you with a little patience you could get all of that used for for $1700. Deduct $450 for the 1960a and your down to $1250.

One word of caution...Marshall use plastic feet. They will vibrate off the top of the Mesa cabs. I had to pull the feet off my 2x12, put them on my DSL 50 and then replace the feet on the 2x12.

 

[mcsdude]

Before getting my road king I had a jvm half stack and a jvm 2x12 combo. Those amps are absolutely killer and are capable of a very wide range of tone. The biggest reasons why I sold those and went boogie was 1. the jvm OD2 channel on red (ie: the anywhere near recto gain chanel) hissed like a mofo to the point that between songs I'd have to switch to a clean chanel - not just turn my guitar down. It annoyed me but what annoyed me more was that marshall continued to deny that it existed. I tested two other jvm's at GC and one of the jvm at sam ash - the same **** hiss that mine had. I also found that my boogie had a throatier - bigger bottom end that I just loved. - Again - that's the road king, not recto - so take it for what it's worth.

I will say the JVM is a more versatile amp than the dual recto but if you love that recto growl the jvm will dissapoint. The JVMs clean, hendrix warm, ac/dc crunch and vintage jcm 800 tones are quite nice but that 4th chanel was annoying and all but useless.

 

[clutch71]

Good point mcsdude. I forgot to mention that.

 

[metalhead51105]

ok sorting out my options i have decided that i do love the rectifier sound for what it has to offer (being a balls to the walls huuuge sound and beastly so why try in tame it in my opinion ... let the son of a ***** roar) so i won't abandon the boogie. however, i prefer the rectifier sound with 30s as opposed to 75s just because its a more balanced speaker choice for that sound. on the flipside i also love the tight mildly aggressive sound of a marshall and the cleans are obviously phenominal. each brand appeals to me beyond the names and more for the sound that comes from their amps in their own respect. on the marshall will i try to get a rectifier sound? hell no thats what a rectifier is for. am i gonna try and get the sound of a marshall out of a rectifier? hell no because thats what a marshall is for. basically what i'll say about where this came from was 1.) i'm missing GOOD on-board reverb. yeah i could get a reverb pedal but i'm slowly becoming a bit of a purist. guitar cable amp. 2.) usable tones. from my setup (and i guess it comes with the territory of the rectifier series as it is well known that there is a learning curve to dialing tone) i've attained some reallllly shitty tones. i've also attained some decent ones as well. but honestly i haven't reached that wow factor yet. many would be quick to assume that maybe its not for me but i say on the contrary cause i've heard it come out of other's amps just not mine ... YET. with the marshall i quickly dialed in a good tone within five minutes. did it wow me? a little bit more than my boogie has wowed me. but i've played around with the settings on the rectifier for a year and i played with the settings on the jvm for 15 minutes. anyway something to consider.

i could keep going on and on but to save you all from a novel i'll cut to the chase (finally!!)
here are my options
1.) buy a used rectifier 4x12 for $500 which seems almost too good to pass up despite the fact that the volume would be a problem but at least my overall tones would be better and i could settle knowing i'd get less brittle harshness.
2.)buy a new rectifier 2x12 to adjust the tones a bit better but not as good as the 4x12, yet be able to get a good usable volume without and extra $300 for an attenuator.
3.) buy a marshall and deal with the cab that i have. then i could eventually get the boogie cab and both amps would sound better.

with either option i do not want to sell anything i have currently until i find something better. to be honest now that i think about it the marshall was sweet but not sweet enough to trade for the boogie but now i want both because i'm greedy. lol. maybe ill sell my soul or become a manwhore to afford it.

in response about the DSL i have considered it. i have similar complaints though. just IMO having separate channels sharing the same EQ is a pain in the ***. also i may be being a bit picky but i'm a stickler about having 3 or 4 channels just to have them. despite what others say i would almost prefer the TSL despite the rumored inferior tone to the DSL solely for the separate EQs and the third channel. Thats exactly why i kinda liked the JVM i guess as far as marshall goes.

to be honest i'm surprised no one chimed in about the roadster or road king. i will say i'm a bit intimidated by it. if you locked me in a room with a road king for a week just to tweak it, i'm pretty sure i'd be in tonal bliss for a loooooonnnng time but i would definitely drive myself insane getting there.

almost forgot ... about that hissing issue with the jvm ... i never noticed it but maybe i didn't have it turned up loud enough. anyway would running a noise suppressor help? i've never have/had to use one so i don't know all that they are cabable of.

all in all i apologize for the novel of a post (i have alot of time to think and i like to look at things from every angle i can think of) and i may be being extremely picky here but like i said before i didn't spend a couple grand on gear to be left semi satisfied cause after all i am still a poor college student who can't even drink in the clubs we play thanks to all those who've responded thus far as your suggestions are being heavily considered and i encourage all to keep helping me out. one last question: is my head in the right place or am i way off base / being too picky?

thanks again,
tony

 

[clutch71]

FWIW metalhead51105 I think your head is in the right place. Your approaching this with thought and consideration. Your thinking and not giving in to gas. I spent the better part of a year subconsciously try to make a Rectifier sound like a Marshall. Each has there own niche and I'm ot one to get into a Mesa Vs. Marshall debate. They each have a place in my house as far as I'm concerned.

When I had the Dual, with the benefit of hind sight, I didn't fully tweak the to it's potential. I did not heed the warning of other guitar players that suggested I should hang on to the Rectoverb before getting rid of the Dual. I'm glad I owned the Dual, but the Rectoverb really fit my playing situation better.

I agree with you that the V30 is more balanced. I found the G12T75 to bright and harsh. I do caution that the 2x12 is a great cab but didn't find it easier to get better tones at lower volumes unless the amp itself got better tones at low volume. Something the DR I had did not seem to do. Their out there. Lnth's Roadster sounds good at lower volumes based on clips and disussions I had with him. Sling75's Tremoverb combo which I played over the weekend sounds good at lower volumes as well. 100w with no tubes pulled.

Best of luck on your tone quest what ever you decide to do. For the record I use the DSL 50 in a Clean/Hi gain mode. If I use crunch on the green channel I usually have to adjust the EQ. I ripped the reveb tank out of the head and use a slight delay(DD-3) in the loop if I want a decent reverb sound. I have alos moddified it with a Mercury Magnetics output transformer and retubed it with a Doug Tubes suggestion of Ruby EL-34 BSTR's and Tung Sol, Penta Labs, JJ ECC83, and unbranded balanced 12AX7 in the PI, V-1 to V-4 respectfully.

 

[mcsdude]

metalhead - i agree with you on the v30's. I love that big boogie recto sound produced by the boogie cabs but felt in the high gain department it was not as versitile as it could be. I started using Port City Amps 2x12 wave cabs with v30's and it left me with plenty of recto meat but still let me achieve more vintage rock and roll tones as well. The two made an awesomely well rounded combination.

 

[scottkahn]

It didn't seem like steering you towards the Road King II was going to help matters, but yes, if you want EL-34 Marshall-esque tone, you can get that from the RK. It's not quite as convincing in the Roadster because that amp only uses 6L6 tubes. But I'd stick with a Marshall amp for your Marshall tone and a Boogie amp for your Boogie tone.

I do question one comment of yours:

2.)buy a new rectifier 2x12 to adjust the tones a bit better but not as good as the 4x12, yet be able to get a good usable volume without and extra $300 for an attenuator.

I don't know why you think the tone wouldn't be as good from the 2x12 when even the folks at Boogie think it sounds better (I know many of them -- this was info straight from their mouths in conversation). It makes sense that you prefer the sound of the V30 speaker to a G12T75 -- that's a valid preference choice.

But a 2x12 Boogie cabinet still delivers the presence of sound you enjoy from a 4x12. Get the cabinet with casters to raise the speakers a few more inches off the ground and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ultimate setup? Get a Road King II, Boogie 2x12 and Marshall 2x12. Then, on a per-channel basis, pick and choose either EL-34 or 6L6 tone and one set of speakers or the other... or, for a monster sound, you can drive both cabinets on one channel, which is similar to how some players mix and match multiple speaker types within a 4x12 to get a particular sound.

 

[jab]

the Rectifier tone can only come from a Rectifier, a Marshall tone can only come from a Marshall. I have learned that from extensive experimenting. I understand your Rectifier plight. I too had one, loved the sound, but also loved a Marshall-esque tone. Would have loved to have both, but as a compromise I sold the DR and bought a Stiletto Ace (retubed with 450s). A Mesa procreating with a Marshall sounded just right for my taste. Now I go to the candy store (Gtr Ctr) and play Marshalls just to calm my GAS. JVM, DSL, Vintage Moderns, etc. sound great. But when I go back home and crank the Stiletto I'm very happy with it. That Stiletto is oozing with EL34 balls and has a great clean channel. No reverb but I put an ever so slight delay on it to compensate. Maybe you should try one just so you know for sure.