Dual Rectifier Revison Question

[adam79]

Like I said, it has no adverse effect on the tone when the tremolo or reverb is engaged. Very good quality effects IMO. YouTube has some clips if you wish to hear the actual effect though.

And they only came in 2 Channel formats.

Yeah, that's what I've been asking about.. the sound of the actual effect. I remember seeing a Trem-O-Verb at a local store; I'm gonna try it out. I thought that the T-O-V had the same schematic as the DR, besides the added effect, but from what you've written I take back my assumption! It's funny you mention the tremDR, cuz I'm looking into buying an EH Worm pedal. You can get some great tremolo sounds out of it.

Thanks again for the advise,
-Adam

 

[Silverwulf]

You were asking about cleans before...here's kind of how I like to set up the cleans on my Recto. This is a brief live clip from a small club with my "modern rock" band, so the tones are dialed in accordingly (and different from the metal stuff). I like to set up my cleans for a little more bold sound just on the edge of breakup, so it can get cleaner when I pick lighter...or I can pick harder and make it a little gritty. I do both in this song:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8455828

It's just recorded with a digicam, so it's poor quality, but gives you an idea. The volume at the venue distorted the camera, so when you hear clipping in the cleans, it's not from the amps, it's the camera mic overloading. Anyway, when it starts, I'm picking lighter on the verses to make it sound clean. When it gets to the bridge around 1:06 or so, I'm picking harder to make it break up and give some grit.

I can make some vids of just the amp to give you a better idea of the cleans, I just ran into this clip this morning.

 

[adam79]

when it starts, I'm picking lighter on the verses to make it sound clean. When it gets to the bridge around 1:06 or so, I'm picking harder to make it break up and give some grit.

I listened to the clip.. the verse is clean, and then it gets distorted in the chorus. You didn't switch channels or raise/lower your guitar volume to go from those cleans to the dirt? Was that you shredding on the lead? I need to learn scales.. I'm more of a songwriter/rhythm guitarist. I know some basic music theory, that common sense taught me, but I still can't hum out a solo and then play it verbatim on the guitar.. I'm not at the point yet where I know what every note on the fretboard will sound like before I hit it.

 

[Silverwulf]

I listened to the clip.. the verse is clean, and then it gets distorted in the chorus. You didn't switch channels or raise/lower your guitar volume to go from those cleans to the dirt? Was that you shredding on the lead? I need to learn scales.. I'm more of a songwriter/rhythm guitarist. I know some basic music theory, that common sense taught me, but I still can't hum out a solo and then play it verbatim on the guitar.. I'm not at the point yet where I know what every note on the fretboard will sound like before I hit it.

It's on the clean channel set right on the brink of breaking up during the verse, then switches to the OD channel during the chorus and lead section. When that fades out, it's back to the clean channel again on the bridge, only I'm picking harder to make it sound a little dirtier than it did during the verse. My volume knob was on "10" the whole time, I just varied my pick attack.

That was me, though I wouldn't exactly call that lead shredding, haha. With the metal band, I play more "shredding" type leads. This band...it's more old school, pentatonic rock based stuff. That lead was actually improvised and played off the cuff. I haven't written a "real" solo for it yet...though I should do that soon, since I think we're about to hit the studio and I don't want to hear the others bitching "You STILL haven't written a solo for that yet?" :lol:

 

[Silverwulf]

Here's a better clip from the same show on a song that uses cleans all throughout the song. You'll get to hear Recto cleans, as well as some lightly sustaining notes with the volume knob rolled on on the neck pickup. One around 0:18 and another around 0:30. The one at 0:30 I had to cut off myself or it could have kept going. That's the neck pickup with the volume on 3. Anyone that says you can't get good sustain from a Recto is full of it... :wink:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8456356

As before, clipping is the camera, not the amps.

 

[adam79]

I need to get the footswitch for this amp. I was thinking about getting the Voodoo clone pedal, but I'm gonna spend the extra $20 and buy a used DR switch, just incase the unfortunate day comes that I have to sell it, it will look more appealing with the matching pedal. Everyday I play this amp, the more I love it. I'm beginning to think that I'm gonna need an EQ pedal to dial in a really great clean tone, that has mojo. I might hook-up my 32-band, rackmount, graphic EQ into the effects loop. I'm not currently using it, so I have it on bypass, but how does the amp respond to the loop? Is it noisy, or does it work well?

I was reading the part of the manual where it tells you all the knobs "sweetspots." according to the manual, the sweetspot fo the Presence is at 7:30, which makes the amp muddy. I brought it up to 1 or 2, and it totally tightened up the bottom end. Not really sure how the people at Mesa came to that conclusion..

-Adam

 

[Silverwulf]

...I brought it up to 1 or 2, and it totally tightened up the bottom end. Not really sure how the people at Mesa came to that conclusion..

1 or 2, as in the increments...or 1 and 2 o'clock?

 

[adam79]

...I brought it up to 1 or 2, and it totally tightened up the bottom end. Not really sure how the people at Mesa came to that conclusion..

1 or 2, as in the increments...or 1 and 2 o'clock?

o'clock.

I was listening to some samples of the Mark IIc+, and that amp has some major mojo. The cleans are unbelievable. I noticed there is one model with a graphic EQ, and one without.. the heads have the same schematic as the combos, right?

Thanks,
-Adam

 

[Silverwulf]

o'clock.

I was listening to some samples of the Mark IIc+, and that amp has some major mojo. The cleans are unbelievable. I noticed there is one model with a graphic EQ, and one without.. the heads have the same schematic as the combos, right?

Thanks,
-Adam

IIC+ head and combos are the same things, assuming you have the same options. I've had a handful, great amps but completely different than the Rectos.

For the presence knob, you're not crazy. I do exactly the same thing. My presence is set (usually) around 12:30 to 1 o'clock. It's been a while since I read the manual, but I think the low presence setting they described was supposed to be more balanced as opposed to a sweet spot. They even mention that in the Modern Red mode, high settings of the Mids and Presence controls delivers a "down right ugly crunch that's huge and angry - not fit for the meek!"

 

[Silverwulf]

Side note, but here's a quick vid of the clean channel on a Rev G. To show you it can stay cleaner even at higher gain with hotter pickups, the preamp has high gain JJ's in it and the guitar was using an EMG 81. The clipping you hear is the video camera, not the amp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epKss5FXAQY

 

[adam79]

For the presence knob, you're not crazy. I do exactly the same thing. My presence is set (usually) around 12:30 to 1 o'clock. It's been a while since I read the manual, but I think the low presence setting they described was supposed to be more balanced as opposed to a sweet spot.

I guess so, although it uses the word "sweet spot." The DR is amazingly heavy, and I love it, but it lacks the mojo of the early Marshalls (JMP, JCM, JTM, etc). I love this amp for writing songs, but I don't think I'd use it in the studio.

 

[Anonymous]

I guess so, although it uses the word "sweet spot." The DR is amazingly heavy, and I love it, but it lacks the mojo of the early Marshalls (JMP, JCM, JTM, etc). I love this amp for writing songs, but I don't think I'd use it in the studio.

Idk man. I had a 2203 Marshall for a while, but I think the Mesa had more balls. This is talking about a 2ch model though; believe the 3ch in my sig will be up for auction quite soon.

 

[Silverwulf]

Idk man. I had a 2203 Marshall for a while, but I think the Mesa had more balls. This is talking about a 2ch model though; believe the 3ch in my sig will be up for auction quite soon.

Agreed. We had a 1981 JCM 800, a few 70's Marshall JMP's, a few modded from the 70's, etc...and the other guitarist I play with - who is a Marshall fan and doesn't like Rectos - commented just a few days ago "I swear Rectos have more girth and balls than just about any amp I've ever heard."

 

[adam79]

Idk man. I had a 2203 Marshall for a while, but I think the Mesa had more balls. This is talking about a 2ch model though; believe the 3ch in my sig will be up for auction quite soon.

Agreed. We had a 1981 JCM 800, a few 70's Marshall JMP's, a few modded from the 70's, etc...and the other guitarist I play with - who is a Marshall fan and doesn't like Rectos - commented just a few days ago "I swear Rectos have more girth and balls than just about any amp I've ever heard."

For JMPs, I like the 2204s.. they more of that crunchy mid-range bark that Marshalls are famous for, the "brown sound." I totally agree about the Mesa being MUCH heavier, but it is sterile, where as the Marshall is more organic.

 

[Anonymous]

For JMPs, I like the 2204s.. they more of that crunchy mid-range bark that Marshalls are famous for, the "brown sound." I totally agree about the Mesa being MUCH heavier, but it is sterile, where as the Marshall is more organic.

Not the 2 channel Rectifiers. They're very organic. The 3 channel models? Definitely.

 

[adam79]

Not the 2 channel Rectifiers. They're very organic. The 3 channel models? Definitely.

You think so? I have another week to decide whether I want to keep this amp, or return it to Guitar Center. My opinion changes almost daily, but for the past few days, I've been leaning towards getting a refund. When carefully tweaked, the clean channel gives me an acceptable distorted tone, especially with an overdrive pedal. I just think that there are better amps out there for me. If I ever change my mind, the 2-channel DRs are easily found; I could always buy another one if I feel I've made a mistake.. it's not like I have one of the earlier revisions, it's the common Rev. G. I don't think I'll ever be 100% satisfied with the cleans. I'm happy I bought the amp, as I always wanted to try a 2-channel DR, and the only way for me to know if I'll miss it, is to return it. As for other Mesa amps, I wanna get my hands on a Mark IIc+. I've listened to some of the youtube demos, and it seems like one hell of an amp.

Thanks to everyone on this board for all the help. I appreciate it.

-Adam

 

[Anonymous]

You think so? I have another week to decide whether I want to keep this amp, or return it to Guitar Center. My opinion changes almost daily, but for the past few days, I've been leaning towards getting a refund. When carefully tweaked, the clean channel gives me an acceptable distorted tone, especially with an overdrive pedal. I just think that there are better amps out there for me. If I ever change my mind, the 2-channel DRs are easily found; I could always buy another one if I feel I've made a mistake.. it's not like I have one of the earlier revisions, it's the common Rev. G. I don't think I'll ever be 100% satisfied with the cleans. I'm happy I bought the amp, as I always wanted to try a 2-channel DR, and the only way for me to know if I'll miss it, is to return it. As for other Mesa amps, I wanna get my hands on a Mark IIc+. I've listened to some of the youtube demos, and it seems like one hell of an amp.

Thanks to everyone on this board for all the help. I appreciate it.

-Adam

First, what cab are you using? Rectifiers - I've found - can be quite picky. Second, here's my favorite Rectifier clip. I'm posting this because that to me is the ultimate Recto sound. If it's not what you're going for, you'd probably do better with a different amp.

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/32-drucifer-blackrectogflex.mp3

That said, I will soon not own a Rectifier after using them for years. Eventually I'd like to own another once the $1000 or so to own one isn't such a big deal, but I'm quite poor right now, being in college and all! The thing is, their preamp is so damn thick that you've got to really work to play well on them. If I were to start heavily gigging, I could see owning one, but the reason I'm going with the Bogners is because of their quick response. Playing on the Bogners is easy, and where I'd just play big power chords on the Recto, I'm now much more willing to learn more about shredding. Basically, I need an amp that will make me a better player. The Mesa might make me a more accurate player, but the fact that they're so difficult to play on makes me less willing to bother.

From a technical aspect, it has to do with their voicing. The Recto series' gain is based lower in the frequency spectrum, giving them an awesome growl and a really fat, thick, heavy tone. The upside is that for down-tuned guitar, you can't beat them. They're simply massive in a mix, and record easily and very well. The downside is you get less relative gain since the frequencies that get crunched are larger. The Uberschall's gain is thick, but with an accent in upper mids that makes it extremely fast, not to mention the huge amount of usable gain on tap. Sustain is far longer than with the Recto, and playing very quickly is not only easier, but at least for me, it's a lot more fun and rewarding. In some ways, it's not as heavy because it adds much of the bass in the power section as opposed to the preamp, but for fast metal, I'd take it any day over the Mesa - which by the way, was initially designed for 80s rock.

This talk of Rectifiers, of course, applies to 2 ch models only. 3 models are another story, where Mesa attempted to do more of what the Uber does. IMO, they failed and instead created a fizzy amp that, while it has some redeeming qualities, falls far short of the magic within 2 ch models.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed my long winded reply!

 

[Anonymous]

Kind of a continuation of my last post, but I'd like to make a point on OD pedals.

When you push the front end with a TS9 or something like it, really all you're doing is shifting the frequency range up a little bit so rather than the growl the Rectifiers are known for, you get a higher distortion that's faster and tighter but not as thick. This allows you to do things you previously couldn't - or at least would have had difficulty with - and gives you more sustain, which can be a lot easier to work with when shredding.

Personally, I don't know what to think of make of this. Effectively, you're thinning out the guitar signal to slam the preamp tubes a little differently, kind of like a brightness switch before the gain stages, and if viewed from that angle I think it's a pretty good idea. However, using the OD pedal definitely changes the tone, IMO, taking away from the Rectifier sound. If you don't always use the OD pedal and have a good use for the straight-in tone, I say go for it. A little enhancement never hurt. However, if you've always got the pedal on, I feel like you're missing out and would do better off with an amp that naturally does what you're making the Rectifier do.

I believe anyone that always uses an OD with their Recto should look into Engl, Peavey 5150 or 6505 - great amps that get bashed for no good reason - the Bogner Uberschall, Diezel if it fits you and you've got the money, and I think Framus. Chances are, one of those would suit you better.

 

[adam79]

First, what cab are you using? Rectifiers - I've found - can be quite picky.

I'm running an 80s Marshall 1960a with UK made Celestion G12-65s. I love these speakers. They sound awesome with every amp I own.

..their preamp is so damn thick that you've got to really work to play well on them. If I were to start heavily gigging, I could see owning one, but the reason I'm going with the Bogners is because of their quick response. Playing on the Bogners is easy, and where I'd just play big power chords on the Recto, I'm now much more willing to learn more about shredding. Basically, I need an amp that will make me a better player. The Mesa might make me a more accurate player, but the fact that they're so difficult to play on makes me less willing to bother.

I've also been thinking of buying a Bogner. I'm interested in the Fish preamp, and some other tube amps they make, the Uberschall (like u mentioned) and the Shiva. I've never played any Bogners, but I'm curious to try these three in-particular. Unfortunately, The only Bogners at the local shops are the cheapos. I'm also interested in a Marshall JTM45. JTM45/100 and the Mark IIc+. I also might go with Fender for their cleans, and then find a distortion pedal that suits me.. maybe a Pearl Blues Blue Balls, or a Sansamp Classic. I also like the TC Electronics pedal that is like an amp modulator, I forget the name of the model.

From a technical aspect, it has to do with their voicing. The Recto series' gain is based lower in the frequency spectrum, giving them an awesome growl and a really fat, thick, heavy tone. The upside is that for down-tuned guitar, you can't beat them. They're simply massive in a mix, and record easily and very well. The downside is you get less relative gain since the frequencies that get crunched are larger.

I totally agree. The voicing is very sterile, compared to other amps, which have a warmer, more organic tone. I love the heaviness of the amp, and I've been writing great songs with it, however, if I went into the studio, I would probably use a different amp than the DR. That's what causes my dilemma about whether or not to keep it.. but like I was saying in a previous post, and like you said, they are easily replaced, so if I feel I made a mistake selling it, I could just buy another.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed my long winded reply!

Yeah, it helped alot.

Thanks,
-Adam

 

[adam79]

I did an A/B with the DR and my Peavey VTM-120. I warmed the tubes up for an hour, and then kept switching back and forth. They almost sound identical. The DR has a bit more edge and crunch than the VTM, but not by much. A couple friends were in the living room when I was comparing them, and both thought I had been playing the same amp through out. I'm leaning towards returning the DR, and getting an old Marshall (JMP, JCM800 or JTM45/100). That or a Mark IIc+, if I can come up with the cash.