dual rec and apartment

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nknyc

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Hey Guys,

Ok i live in an apartment and I use a jsx and a recto 2x12, so during the day i can play as loud as i need. I am looking at getting a dual rec, the jsx is great a low levels for night time jamming,

My question is the dual rec touchy, meaning is the 1st setting just blazing loud? I would love to try one first but the nearest mesa dealer is far and I would prefer to try it in my home.

I know i could get a hot plate, but I dont need one with the jsx plus there 299. but if needed i would get one.

I have heard mixed reviews about mesas in the bedroom. but this isnt a bedroom its my own apt, and my neighbors are always cranking there music so day time is ok to blast.

but night time is my concern, i dont mind that it dosnt sound as good. but i would still like decent low volume tones.

is this possible?

Thanks in advance.
 
yeah I had my dual rec and 2x12"(and 1x12" mesa thiele cab) in my room for a little bit,It sounded OK at low levels I could live with it but it wasnt really great,I did get to crank the sucker during the day and ohhh by god it was heaven served through a speaker.

This said I would get one over the JSX (wel I kindda did),It just what I wanted but I was considering if I was goin to keep it in the house to definatly get a THD hotplate to keep the beast under control.

To answer your question clearly,Its an amazing amp,at low levels Its fine,not great but cranked ohhh boy It is amazing,with a hotplate it is really sweet

You can beat a rec up procucing that much kinetic energy it moves your balls,hahahaha
lets keep it clean(the cleans are really great as well even although there are mixed views they do the job)

Euan
 
I've got the same situation, maybe I should go buy an attenuator as well. But I play a Dual in my apartment through a 2x12 and had one complaint from the lady down stairs. And the guy next door loved it. But I must of really been cranking that day seeing I had played for months without a peep from anybody.

So I believe you'll be ok, and oh yea. It sounds fantastic, the louder the better of course, but it rocks!
 
i'm thinking of getting a hotplate cause our rehearsal space is mad small!

when i get it i'll let you know how it sounds :)
 
I am considering a Hotplate as well for my Dual/2x12 and I'd be curious to hear what you think when your's is up and running.
 
Between all the gas for more guitars, which I don't need....sigh. I need to really get some recording gear, but if I can score a hotplate it can only make it all sound better.

Any particular brand you are going for? Or are they all pretty much the same? I remember seeing 2 different ones in a guitar shop in Louisville.
 
I just got done jam'n with my Dual Rec here in my apartment. Of course, it sounds better louder. But it doesn't sound bad at apartment volume levels. Even a 30 watt amp can be too loud for an apartment. I would say go for it if that's what you want. You probably won't live in an apartment for ever and if you ever jam with friends or have the opportunity to play live, you'll be grateful for the Dual Rec.
 
I have a Single Rec with a 4x12 Recto cab and I live in a student house with four other people. To be honest, to get the really great tones from the amp it does have to go up to a point where it annoys my other housemates, so obviously I can't do it very often as I'm not evil like that :) . I would imagine that your situation is very similar, you want the great tones but can't afford to piss everyone off. I can only say that a Hotplate is a must, I am saving up for one so that I too can enjoy guilt-free tone! The Recifier will make you happy I am sure, just be aware that most of the time you will have to keep it low which can be frustrating.
 
Don't get a hotplate man, they suck your tone. Just run it straight. If you gotta play at night-time then you're gonna have to live with sub-par tones, I think. Do Dual Recs have the fuse switch like Road Kings, with the Bold/Spongy? If they do, switch it to spongy for less headroom and a quieter tone. It's looser, but it's definitely quieter.
 
Funny cause today there was guest in my house so i was playing with not much presence(7:30),recto pre's master volume at 11o'clock and ouput volume at 7 o'clock with 2:100! (i even put the gain at 3o'clock for playing lead with the modern mode and vintage).8)


This way i can have at least tone from the preamp cause usually i'm doing the opposite (a lot of gain [2:30]with the master volume a little below the breaking point).
 
I suggest against the hotplate....I didn't find it to help more than how much tone it sucked...didn't like it at all with my DR and sold it a few months later.

As for the amp, I gave up playing my recto at low volumes....it plays, and it sounds ok, but after you crank it, you see what it can really do....puts its low volume tones to shame...
 
thanks for the replies, i hear that you can remove 2 power tubes and a rec tube and run it at half power.

Have you tried this?
 
Maybe you should check out my thread on that topic.

http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10866

As they suggested it really dosen't change much. Platypus knows whats up! Cause I plugged all my tubes back in and well, I guess it sounds good to me. But I went without playing my Dual for about a week or more so it was of course going to be awsome.

But the tones I'm getting out if it now sound good. And if I could place the way it sounded with the tubes pulled, it sounded midier to me.
 
Logically one would think that if you pull half of the tubes you get half of the volume output. This is not the case as it only drops the volume about 3db's. It really doesn't matter if you do it or not but be sure to match your impedance up properly as it changes when you remove tubes. The impedance on the amp gets reduced by 1 notch (ie if you use an 8 ohm cab plug it into the 4 ohm output.). To get half of the volume you would have to be running around 10 watts.

The preamp is where most of your tone is generated so if the tone sounds bad at low volumes it's your preamp settings which must change to compensate for not having loud volume. So maybe an EQ in the loop would do some good for low level practicing.

I think my TA and 20/20 sound pretty weak at low volumes(due to the speakers not being driven) but still retain the same tone as when I turn it up so I found a nice compromise between bedroom and rock and roll volumes.

Even my little 5 watt Valve Jr tube amp is too loud to crank in the bedroom. You would need a .5 watt amp if you wanted an amp to crank in your bedroom without disturbing the people in other rooms. The little 5 watt amp will give me great power amp distortion at much lower levels but it is nowhere near bedroom/night time levels.

Some other solutions are getting a little practice amp (like the boss cube or vox DA5) that will just amplify your guitar enough for practicing purposes. I think it's a waste to be running a 100watt tube amp for night time practice because you are just wearing down your power tubes more and more. A little solid state amp won't break the bank and won't sound like the pits for jammin by yourself.

Oh and I have been hearing from a lot of folks that the JSX really doesn't cut it when cranked. It's a shame about the JSX but I thought my 5150 sounded great when it was opened up and the same was true for my friend's old Ultra Plus head.

Greg
 
Well your statment is part true, yes it does not truly bring the output power down by half, but it brings down the headroom by half and that is also what is important.

Taking out of the equastion, pedels, pickups and guitars, a tube amp tone is determined by 3 things.

So lets go over the 3 parts that makes a cranked tube amp sound great.

1- Preamp distortion, this of course has nothing to do with volume at all, it is the same wether you have the volume set at 1, or if you have it set at 10. The only thing that will make preamp distortion distort more is by throwing a boost in front of it. Reason you adjust your preamp knobs at different volumes, if you crank and amp you are going to get more bass and more treble, actualy your ears just get to a point where they hear sounds different at higher volumes and ear fatigue comes into play.

2- Power amp distortion. This is what made old marshall's sound great, cranking the power amp, it is a warmer distortion then preamp distortion. The mix of good preamp distortion and power amp distortion is what makes mesa's sound great at higher volumes, more distortion of course this way and why you can turn down your preamp gain when cranked!

3- Air movement, the speakers going back and forth, of course this is only if you are standing in front of it without a PA system. Because honestly a MIC does not really get effected by the air movement, as long as there is enough movement for the MIC to pick up the waves it is happy, it will not sound better with more movement when going into a PA system, because you can just boost that signal at the board.

So how does this effect pulling two tubes, well when you do that there is less headroom, which means those power amp tubes will distort alot quicker and at lower volumes, so you will get both he power amp and premap distortion at a lower volume and be happier. Of course if you are not mic'ing you will be getting less speaker movement and that you can feel, mostly the bass pounding.

The hot plate works almost the same, basically the amp with all four tubes will output a certain DB to that speaker cable, the hotplate takes that signal and cuts it down by whichever DB you select, there for giving you the same effect and pulling two tubes.

Like with pulling tubes you will loose air movement. Little trick with the hotplates, best to set it with about a 4DB drop, 8DB at max. With these settings the Tone is only very slighty effected and you can adjust by using the switches on the hotplate or just changing the EQ on your amp. Mostly using a hot plate will effect your treble and bass and that is why the Hotplate gives you a treble and bass booster.

And yes you can use a hotplate with two tubes pulled. If you have a 8 ohm cab, use a 8 ohm hotplate, on the back of your amp make sure to use a 4 ohm tap. Once again you will be loosing the air movement the most.

Differences between pulling two tubes and Hotplate.

Pulling two tubes you are only wearing out two tubes intead of four. People say that a 50 watt amp does not have as much umph (bass) as a 100 watt amp. But hell mesa's have enough bass already if you ask me.

Hotplate- You have to crank the amp even higher then if you were to have only two power tubes. Example, with two power tubes you have output at 12 oclock and those power amp tubes start distorting, where with four tubes you have to crank the output to 3 or 4 oclock to get the output tubes to distort. They say with a hotplate you loose some bass and treble response, but like i said you have the switches to make up for it, plus mesa's have enough bass already.

Honestly, both ways are a great way to get close to the cranked tone in your bedroom with out shaking your neighbors out of there beds. But for me if I cant crank it in my apartment, i just plug right into my POD 2.0 and get great tone too! People can put down the pods all they want, but for bedroom jams they are the ****! Notice i said POD 2.0's, to my ears they sound alot better then the newer ones.

As to the 20/20 amps, great amps, however like you said you loose the air movement plus they have less bass then a EL34, but they are sweet when they distort if you want that rock vibe, but not good for metal.

disassembled said:
Logically one would think that if you pull half of the tubes you get half of the volume output. This is not the case as it only drops the volume about 3db's. It really doesn't matter if you do it or not but be sure to match your impedance up properly as it changes when you remove tubes. The impedance on the amp gets reduced by 1 notch (ie if you use an 8 ohm cab plug it into the 4 ohm output.). To get half of the volume you would have to be running around 10 watts.

The preamp is where most of your tone is generated so if the tone sounds bad at low volumes it's your preamp settings which must change to compensate for not having loud volume. So maybe an EQ in the loop would do some good for low level practicing.

I think my TA and 20/20 sound pretty weak at low volumes(due to the speakers not being driven) but still retain the same tone as when I turn it up so I found a nice compromise between bedroom and rock and roll volumes.

Even my little 5 watt Valve Jr tube amp is too loud to crank in the bedroom. You would need a .5 watt amp if you wanted an amp to crank in your bedroom without disturbing the people in other rooms. The little 5 watt amp will give me great power amp distortion at much lower levels but it is nowhere near bedroom/night time levels.

Some other solutions are getting a little practice amp (like the boss cube or vox DA5) that will just amplify your guitar enough for practicing purposes. I think it's a waste to be running a 100watt tube amp for night time practice because you are just wearing down your power tubes more and more. A little solid state amp won't break the bank and won't sound like the pits for jammin by yourself.

Oh and I have been hearing from a lot of folks that the JSX really doesn't cut it when cranked. It's a shame about the JSX but I thought my 5150 sounded great when it was opened up and the same was true for my friend's old Ultra Plus head.

Greg
 
hey man. the low volume on ym DR is pritty shiesty. very weak and buzzy. it won;t kill ya but everytime my parents are ut a sly grin breaks across my face cuz thast when i can crank it and unleash the godly tone again! i guess if u wanan look at it thsi way, when u play at lwo volumes ur starving urself of good tone, but once you crank it...you know it was worth the wait
 
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