Do you believe in natural talent?

[Bruin]

Do you believe in natural talent?
I always hear people (mostly non players) who say " Well, he was just born to play the instrument."

I dont buy that. Ever see Stevie Ray's guitar? It didn't get worn out from sitting in a case!
Randy Rhodes? Ever take a look at his Strat? (Yes, he played a Strat before Ozzy.)

Anyway, Im getting sick and tired of hearing how if you weren't born with it, you ain't got it.
I think that's Bullshit!

What do you guy's think?

 

[Pinweaver]

I can speak from 12 years of guitar teaching experience and I simply know that it's true.
So far every student was able to learn how to play guitar, but a few of them aren't able to play music. They will improve over time with a lot of practice, but they will never sound as natural as someone who has musical talent.

It's especially noticeable when you give them a song with a specific rhythm to play. A song I always study with my more advanced students is Acoustic Alchemy's Silent Partner.
The few naturally talented students will be able to play the rhythm after simply hearing and seeing me do it a couple of times.
The largest group will be able to play it after I analyse it with them, write it down and practice it quite a few times.
A few untalented people will never be able to play it, no matter what they try. At times they will come close, but it will never sound as fluent and natural as it does with the first two groups. And on top of that they don't seem to remember it and have to start over again with the analysis every time they want to try to play it.

So in short: yes there is such a thing as talent and I think it's especially visible in arts.

 

[Charlie]

This is a really good question!

I'm personally on the fence with this one.

As far as visual arts are concerned.. I think that anyone can learn how to draw realistically as long as they put the time into it and receive proper training. But coming up with good ideas once you know how to draw is a different story.

Same thing with music. Anybody can learn to play an instrument as long as they have the desire to do it and are willing to put the time into it. What they choose to play and whether it's good or not... well I don't think that part can be taught.

With that said I don't think being an artist or a musician is easy for anybody. In fact I think the better somebody is the harder it is for them.

 

[eltrain858]

short answer - yes, absolutely, some people are just born with innate musical talent

 

[tommyhawk13]

This is a really good question!

As far as visual arts are concerned.. I think that anyone can learn how to draw realistically as long as they put the time into it and receive proper training. But coming up with good ideas once you know how to draw is a different story.

Drawing is much like music. Sure, anyone can learn where to put marks on paper to make a picture, but there is so much more. The line quality cannot be duplicated by practice. It comes from a graceful hand, instinctively applying pressure in some areas, less in others. It's like vibrato.
You shouldn't practice vibrato, you should feel it, and let it come out through your hand. I think that's where talent comes in.

 

[yettoblaster]

Well certainly the craft part is learned, and people with good memories seem to pick it up faster if they are at all in tune with their bodies (like which way to move your fingers when you're looking down on them and they're pointing up at you on the guitar neck), and can take direction.

Beyond that, I've heard it said, "Genius is knowing what to ignore."

With that in mind I believe there are certain people with a tremendous portion of focus and drive.

I resented it when people said I had talent on the guitar as a youngster. "It's a lot of work!"

Over the years I've met some people who I thought had more natural physical ability than others. It's tempting to think they have special gifts or A gift, if that's what "talent" describes.

There are genius guitar players in this town pumping gas. I've run into them.
There are hundreds of guitar players in this town who can play particular styles better'n me, though I like to think I'm versatile, can read, and show up on time! :wink:

What really fries me is that it seems like every BASS player in this town plays GUITAR better'n I do! :evil:

 

[RR]

Do you believe in natural talent? ...
Anyway, Im getting sick and tired of hearing how if you weren't born with it, you ain't got it.
I think that's Bullshit!

What do you guy's think?

Bruin, not sure how old you are, keep playing the guitar, expand your music style if you haven't done so. Appreciate music, appreciate other styles ... try to be diverse, when you get in your 40's, you'll probably could go to Guitar Center and play better than all those guitar punks.

With exception of few like Jason Becker, Paul Gilbert, Marty Freidman and maybe a few other GIT students (can't remember if these guys were students or instructors), where are all these so-called hot guitarists? They STOP PLAYING THEIR GUITARS or either they became too one-dimensional and times passed them up.

Keep playing the guitar (which is call practice) and diverse your style.

 

[18&Life]

I do believe in gnomes

 

[guitarmaster]

:!:

 

[MusicManJP6]

I think music is a form of expression just as art is a form of expression. I think you have to have a creative mindset to be a truly naturally talented musician. I think the earlier music is instilled in your brain, the better you will be at being able to take in music and play it back on an instrument. I started playing piano when I was 8, drums at 10, trumpet at 12, guitar at 15, and bass shortly thereafter. Ever since I started playing guitar I've listened to as much music as I can fit into a day. I taught myself to play guitar for a year, then took lessons for a year. When I took lessons, I always came back to the next lesson having mastered the song/songs that I asked him to show me. He was usually pleasantly surprised that I would have the songs down in a week. I think it basically comes down to your mindset and your persistence. I took art all 4 years in high school and always enjoyed drawing, so I can't help but think art and music are both very similar in that they require an open mind to be able to accept and understand what you hear and see and interpret it into a logical form that enables you to understand it in your own unique way - or express yourself in a unique way.

Wow, hope that all made sense... long story short, 'natural talent' is definitely a true statement. How do you think there are child prodigies that can nail every EVH lick with their eyes closed? They feel it and understand the music. They just 'get it'. I guess you could say there are different types of intelligence and one of those intelligences is the comprehension of music.......

 

[73h Nils]

Jordan Rudess. [/Discussion]

That guy...Ho..ly...Crap. I do believe in Natural Talent...But I don't have it. :lol:

 

[tommyhawk13]

Do you believe in natural talent?
I always hear people (mostly non players) who say " Well, he was just born to play the instrument."

I dont buy that.

Bruin, you probably think this way because you do have natural talent, and expect the rest of the world to think like you do.
And yes, hard work is necessary no matter if it's a 7 year old prodigy, or an Old World Italian composer who locked himself in his studio day after day practicing. He was so fast, people accused him of selling his soul to the devil.

I used to debate this topic in Art class, and the argument inspired this painting.

 

[Rocky]

Do you believe in natural talent?
I always hear people (mostly non players) who say " Well, he was just born to play the instrument."

I dont buy that. Ever see Stevie Ray's guitar? It didn't get worn out from sitting in a case!
Randy Rhodes? Ever take a look at his Strat? (Yes, he played a Strat before Ozzy.)

Anyway, Im getting sick and tired of hearing how if you weren't born with it, you ain't got it.
I think that's Bullshit!

What do you guy's think?

Randy Rhoads.....sad that people can't spell the poor guys name properly. Poor Randy Anyway he was a Gibson guy going back to his QR days. The strat was a guitar that he used for teaching etc...it was a backup and I have an interview where he notes that he stripped the finish intentionally.


As for the natural thing....I dont buy it. Think music is a craft and craft skills can be developed.

 

[guitarmaster]

:!:

 

[CoG]

lol, I think it's even more complicated than that. I'm a firm believer in natural talent, but there's two kinds of that, too.

- there's varying amounts of a real physical/sense talent for a particular instrument or type of instrument that helps people to create the kind of music that instrument's good for -- I think this would be someone like Paul Gilbert or EVH, or a lot of the classic shredders. Lots of vocalists fit into this category.

- there's varying amounts of a primarily intellectual talent for music-- a real instinctive understanding of rhythm, harmony, melody-- people who can pick up an instrument they don't even know how to play, probably play it wrong, and still create terrific music. Sometimes these people aren't even very accomplished at any particular instrument. Here's where, in a modern context, you have somebody like Lennon or McCartney, Prince (who is a pretty hot player), Peter Gabriel, Tom Waits, Neil Young, probably Kurt Cobain.

Then you have, totally separately, the amount of work someone puts into the craft of an instrument, or of music more broadly, regardless of influence from either of the above. It's possible to become really good at something without any talent for it. This is extraordinarily common, probably even the norm, in young classical musicians-- my wife's a classical pianist and she'd probably put herself in this category.

A really disciplined artist development system like you have in classical music can make you into a professional-level player (though maybe not one with a steady performance gig) through sheer hard work as long as you really want it.

 

[123thefirst]

+1

Also there's the aspect that music is a whole other domain which is based on communication and shared understanding - very much a parallel to mathematics and languages. Musical phrases normally have a logic to them that we recognize. They have a content of both experience and potentiality.

Even "outside" musical statements are recognizable to musicians who aren't too surprised by them. Being able to recognize, recall and translate patterns of any sort is a big factor.

You know, sometimes during the summer months I hear a nearby bird singing away like mad. It must be some type of mocking bird. It amazes me that it can sing one song after another for minutes on end with no break, never repeating an idea and always sounding fresh and original.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

To me, the reason kids that play music have higher IQ's, and do better in school is very basic.

You have to "think" of where you're going, before you go there. In other words your brain has to be ahead of your hands. Even if it's fractions of a second, in the case of playing fast licks. Bluegrass players are lightning fast.

While I do believe talent is a huge part of it, it's a part of the brain that can react quickly to a given situation. You're at a jam session, or somebody sits in, does a modulation, changes keys, screws up, you have to find count, react, and keep it going.

Musicians have to think and react very quickly to a basic theory, not just shooting a target in a video game. And this is good for the brain.

I LOVE a last minute call to fill in with a band I don't play with because someone is sick or something. You have to figure it out LIVE, onstage, and quickly. Rush!

Great topic.

Best of luck.

 

[StratTone]

Do you believe in natural talent?
I always hear people (mostly non players) who say " Well, he was just born to play the instrument."

I dont buy that. Ever see Stevie Ray's guitar? It didn't get worn out from sitting in a case!
Randy Rhodes? Ever take a look at his Strat? (Yes, he played a Strat before Ozzy.)

Anyway, Im getting sick and tired of hearing how if you weren't born with it, you ain't got it.
I think that's Bullshit!

What do you guy's think?

I agree with you totally. You have to work to get good.

 

[MesallicA]

Noone is born and are able to play amazingly off the bat, but definitely some people can pick things up much faster and progress faster then others.

Also ive watched some documentaries about 'genes', what your parents do in their life will effect that of there children's genetics, or something like that. So people who are generally considered 'natural talent' often have had very musical families.

It's like vibrato.
You shouldn't practice vibrato, you should feel it, and let it come out through your hand. I think that's where talent comes in.

i couldnt disagree more, good vibrata doesnt come from fuzzy feelings in your stomach or whatever, it comes from practice and putting time into the instrument. The best give away to how good someone is on there instrument is in the vibrato, you can instantly tell people who are not very comfortable on the guitar just by 1 note they play. They may have the 'feeling' in there head but you need practice to translate that to your fingers.

 

[123thefirst]

It's like vibrato.
You shouldn't practice vibrato, you should feel it, and let it come out through your hand. I think that's where talent comes in.

i couldnt disagree more, good vibrata doesnt come from fuzzy feelings in your stomach or whatever, it comes from practice and putting time into the instrument. The best give away to how good someone is on there instrument is in the vibrato, you can instantly tell people who are not very comfortable on the guitar just by 1 note they play. They may have the 'feeling' in there head but you need practice to translate that to your fingers.

Maybe the trick is to practice something as much as necessary to be reasonably technically sound, but not to over practice so that all of your playing becomes a mechanical exercise. You can hear that with all "Shredders" can't you?

The higher level "practicing" ought to be the everyday second-by-second process of improvisation - translating a deep musical idea or life experience into the finger work. That improvisation can be just a simple slight variation on something you're already familiar with playing if you can't imagine anything more at the moment. But the spontaneity is what makes it real and alive.