DC5 GEQ vs. Passive

[Casper]

Opinions are wanted. I've been struggling a bit with with amp placement and ice-pick treble issues. My bass player advised me this past gig, to turn all eq knobs on 10 (for flatness?) and use the GEQ for tone shaping. I played a set like that and I loved the tone except for the edge or "hair" I was getting. Then I remembered that the mid knob is a gain stage past 4, so I cut it back. It still was pretty acceptable, but I didn't have as much sustain, and it hollowed out the tone a bit. I played with the graphic and tried to compensate for cutting the mid back. Which slider or frequency will do that best, I will have to experiment more. I also rolled off the treble on the knob and cut the end slider (6k?) almost all the way off. I also cut the 80hz slider almost all the way off too. Question is all eq knobs on 10 flat? All the way on zero yields no sound?

I am really close, I feel, to finding the grailtone for me. I wanted to see what any of you thought about this approach..using the knobs dimed and then using the GEQ as a final tone shaper...am I on the right track or thinking pattern?
on one hand, I still feel like I should be able to get my tone without the GEQ, on the other..it may be nice for tweaking.
It has been suggested that the JJs may be too bright for me as well..(which is a whole other discussion I'm sure...
just rambling thoughts here, feel free to opine..Shaun

 

[eschoendorff]

It could be as simpl as getting to the gig early to tweak your tone and make it sound "right" at that venue.

With my DC-5, I do notice that it has more honk and bite when I play it as a combo. Most often, though, I am running it through a Marshall closed-back 4x12 and that alone really helps the tone. You might consider taking a piece of 1/2 or so plywood and making a make-shift baffle that will seal off the back of your amp (use painters tape) just to try to to see if a closed-back set up makes any difference. If it works, then you can run your combo through a closed 1x12 for that venue.

I think I'd try plan A first though - get there early so you can mess with the EQ. Or just tell your bass player to move out of the way, lol!

 

[brungio]

I don't think pinning the EQ knobs are going to get you the tone you want. My advice would be to start with your treble around 4-5 and then use the others to help shape out your main tone. Once you get a good tone that's close to what you want, then use the on board or other EQ to boost up the signal.

I think the presence should be very low as well.

With your treble at 10 I think your overall sound will be spikey and not what you're looking for. I used that setting a lot with Fender amps but I think the DC responds much differently. It took me a few years to break that habit and take the advice of others (including the owners manual) and try different things.

Try using the bass around 7 or 8 with the treble around 4 or 5 and use the mid to contour it and see what you come up with. Then roll the bass back if it doesn't suit you.

 

[Casper]

All good..But I think where I was leading was...what is true Flat..dimed or O on the passive (knobs)? Again, dimed the tone was damned nice with great sustain..save for the early break up which I'm sure came from the mid knob gain stage. I should be able to compensate for the loss since the GEQ is post-amp and the mid knob is pre??
The advice about dialing it in at gigs is great, and I usually do set the room up, but don't have tweak time to get it just right all the time.
It would benefit me to understand guitar frequencies more than I do fer sure..
Keeping the "Hair" out of the clean channel is what I'm after, but still having the spank and warmth I need for the variety of music we do..
We have a couple of weeks off coming up and I plan on doing some learning...thanks all for your thoughts

 

[Ken j]

All good..But I think where I was leading was...what is true Flat..dimed or O on the passive (knobs)? ...

The treble, mid, and bass are active. 5 is probably as close to flat as you will get with the exception of the mid control. as you know to keep below 4 unless you want some gain from it. Remember Boogie tone stacks are interactive so they all affect each other. I do know (at least on my former DC-5) that the GEQ is flat at the middle of the slide. There is almost no difference with all of the sliders in that position when switching in and out.

 

[MusicManJP6]

All good..But I think where I was leading was...what is true Flat..dimed or O on the passive (knobs)? ...

The treble, mid, and bass are active. 5 is probably as close to flat as you will get with the exception of the mid control...

Are you sure about that? It seems like the DC-3 has a passive EQ. With an active EQ, if you turn all EQ knobs to '0' you will get no output - with a passive EQ, it will just sound like poo.

In any case, with most Mesas it is best to start with all knobs at 5 and tweak from there. Turn each EQ knob from left to right to get a feel for that knobs range of effectiveness and make sure to use your ears instead of your eyes! If it sounds good to YOU with all knobs at 10 then don't let anyone tell you that's 'not how to do it'. It's YOUR tone!

 

[Ken j]

If they are passive how can the mid control add gain? If you look at the schematic there is voltage applied at the top of the drawing feeding the tone stack. Maybe this would best be answered by Monsta Tone our resident tech. I have been wrong before and could be now.

 

[Casper]

Musicman is right..your ears should tell you what the correct tone is, However, I also don't want to overdrive a circuit or put unnecessary wear on a tube either. This is a great discussion folks. I wil try the '5' thing tomorrow and see if that is a better starting place...the mid is such a particapatory knob..When I had everything dimed..the tone and sustain was great..except for the hair/gain..I lost it when I backed the mid below 4 and wasn't able to re-compensate.
I would still say that the tone knobs are passive in that they act as a signal gate...no knobs on equals no sound??
thanks for chiming in as always..
Shaun

 

[Monsta-Tone]

If they are passive how can the mid control add gain? If you look at the schematic there is voltage applied at the top of the drawing feeding the tone stack. Maybe this would best be answered by Monsta Tone or resident tech. I have been wrong before and could be now.

I'm not sure where this 'Active EQ' stuff came from. Probably from Mesa's Marketing.
I have not seen an active EQ on a guitar amp yet. They are passive.

It simply cuts or un-cuts the amount of certain frequencies in the signal.

The best sounding/neutral position is in the middle.
I always start with all of my tone knobs in the middle before I try to find my tone in an amp that is new to me. This way, I can tweak each one individually to get there.

As for the Mids adding more hair or gain, it is simple. When you are pushing more mids through the signal, you will cause these frequencies to clip or distort more quickly, plus, you are simply letting more of the signal through. The 'Boost' push-pull on the DC's simply adds a much bigger treble capacitor to the circuit, which actually lets tons of mids through and overdrives the amp more easily.

One of the major differences between the 5F6 Bassman and the earliest Marshall was simply more mids.


As for your 'Ice-Pick' tone, try this:
Bypass the GEQ.
Set all tone knobs in the middle.
Set the volumes how you like them.
Use the Gain for the Gain in the channel if you are looking for more distortion or a hotter sound.
Use the Master for the Gain and the Gain for the Master if you are looking for a smoother, more Vintage sound.
Turn your Presence all the way down.
Adjust the Gain and the EQ to get the tone you are looking for.
Then, adjust the Presence to get the amount of sparkle or upper high end.
Then add the GEQ in.


The GEQ is very simple. The far left is the lower bass. The far right is the upper treble. The middle is the middle.
Don't let it intimidate you, it is really simple to dial in.
Simply start with everything in the middle, just like the passive EQ. Then, adjust to taste. Try minor adjustments though so that you don't over do it.