DC 3 help

[MarshMesa]

Alright, so I recently posted an ad to try to sell it, but I'd like to try to give this thing just a little more time. To begin with, I love the clean channel and I find the lead channel sounds great for jazz.

However, I've had a problem with this amp that I just can't find a solution to, yet. I have three guitars and two of them use passive humbuckers, and the other uses active EMG single coil SA pickups. The problem is that this amp is still a bit on the muddy side, even with a fresh pair of JJ tubes. I don't need the gain of a rectifier, but I like to have a tight sound on the lead channel. I've noticed the SA EMG's sound the most tight of all three of my guitars through the DC 3. But what is odd is that through my Marshall DSL, my guitars don't sound muddy at all. My telecaster has a Duncan JB in it the bridge, which sounds great on the Marshall, but a bit muddy on the DC 3. I've been having to use an overdrive pedal as a clean boost with the DC 3, and that makes the amp sound amazing. But I would like to get away from overdrive pedals if I can. I've exhausted about everything I can (EQ adjustments, speaker adjustments, etc.)

So here's the thing - I was considering putting an active EMG 81 in the bridge of my Telecaster, and an EMG 60 or 85 in the neck. Does anyone on this forum use a guitar with an EMG 81 pickup with a DC 3? Does it sound tight to your ears?

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[MJ Slaughter]

How are you setting your EQ's and what are you using for a speaker? I've had my DC-3 combo for about 9 months, it is my second el84 tube amp and though I love the amp I don't know if you can get a real tight sound out of it. What music are you playing?

 

[MarshMesa]

I think it's easiest if I just show you my settings. I usually keep the master at 1 or 2 for bedroom volume. I bought this amp thinking it would be quiet :lol: .

For speaker cab, I am using a 1922 Marshall 2X12 or 2X10 cabinet. It sounds great with my Marshall. I'm using the 8 OHM jack to the 8 OHM speaker input as to my ears, this sounds better than the 4 OHM.

The thing I'm wondering is if I would have been better off buying a DC 5, as some people have said they have a tighter sound. I was scared to buy another 6L6 amp, as I thought the huge bass in 6L6 tubes would be muddy. I though EL 84's would be tighter, but am I wrong?

Also, I've heard clips of people using the DC 3 on youtube, and it sounds much brighter and tighter in their clips, although they are using those metal guitars. They claim they weren't using any pedals too.

I'm going for a good, tight, rock sound when I palm mute with my telecaster, as it has a JB pickup in it. I can't think of a specific artist. Thing is though, I find the DC 3 has a great sound for jazz, so it's not a problem in that regard. But in terms of rock, I am wondering if I would be better off with the DC 5 and just keep the bass on 2 or 3 so it's not super bassy.

 

[MJ Slaughter]

Most people don't run the bass on their lead channel above 3 as I'd suggest to you. You've already got the 80 Hz slider up quite a bit. If you're just judging this off of bedroom volumes that could be part of the problem. Mine is alwasy less bright and tight at those levels. I play with the masters up to at least 3 and the output level no lower than 2. When possible I prefer the masters more like 4-5 and the output around 3. The DC amps are not known for being bright either, some say dark.

I've had the DC-5 and DC-10 as well and they too are great amps but different from the DC-3. Theres been a fair amount of discussion here about the differences.

 

[MarshMesa]

Thanks.

I know the DC 5 and DC 10 have more gain and more bass, but would you say they are tighter sounding?

 

[ErickG]

Did you only replace the Power Tubes with JJs? Or did you do a complete retube with JJs? If not, may be you need pre-amp tubes?

For now, I think you have the bass set too high. Turn it down to 3 or 4 and set all the sliders to the middle position and set up your sound without the EQ to get started then add EQ to fine tune your sound. Try the EQ suggestions from the DC-3 Manual to help you get started.

I have a DC-5, which is different as you point out, but I didn't run the bass higher than 3 for the lead channel and then I use the EQ to fine tune it higher to taste. I only use the EQ for the Lead Channel too I find I don't need it on the Clean/Rhythm Channel. I run mine like this Bass-3, Mid-6, Treb-8 with subtle V for the EQ.

Mesa's have a lot of bass in them and my friend with a Marshall has to crank his to make it known.

Best regards,
Erick

 

[MarshMesa]

Wow! You guys were right.

No offense to you all, but I honestly didn't expect that lowering the bass would solve the problem. I am amazed at how much better it sounds now. I feel I'm getting the real DC sound for once. Sounds great with my telecaster with the Duncan JB.

I also read in the manual that too much bass will flubb up the tone. I find that turning down the bass to 2 or 1 solves the problem. Or turning it down to 3 and lowering the 80Hz to around 4.

The weird thing I notice is that my Marshall doesn't have this problem with the bass very much, but Mesa's appear to be very bass sensitive in terms of the effect it has on the tone. The thing that makes the sound mushy with my DSL is simply too much gain, which makes sense. Mesa's are completely different animals as I'm learning.

Thanks guys!! Now I'm not sure if I want to sell this thing. It's got great indie rock tones!

 

[MarshMesa]

Did you only replace the Power Tubes with JJs? Or did you do a complete retube with JJs? If not, may be you need pre-amp tubes?

Just to reply to your question, I replaced all the tubes with all JJ's. This did improve the tone a lot, although I didn't think the Mesa tubes sounded bad.

 

[ErickG]

Excellent! Glad the changes worked. Mesa DCs are great amps.

Have fun,
Erick

 

[bhsbhswarp]

^^YES^^YES THEY ARE^^

 

[MarshMesa]

Lately I've been having so much fun with my "new" DC 3, well I mean since I learned how the controls work! This amp can get absolutely brutal distortion when dialed right, and without any pedals. I tend to like more alternative rock (weezer, nirvana, etc) sounds with this thing and it does a great job at achieving those tones. It can do Metallica tones with an extra EQ in the loop. I never thought this "softer" amp with EL 84's could be so brutal, but I was way wrong. I really like the sound of this amp, and I no longer feel like I need to get a DC 5. I don't turn the gain past 8 on this thing, and even that is already insanely brutal. One benefit of the DC 5 though would be cheaper and less often tube replacement.

Thanks for the help everyone! I'm willing to bet 1 out of every 3 Mesa's sold on the used market are because the owner didn't know how to dial it right.

 

[crguti]

I no longer feel like I need to get a DC 5.

you cannot compared the lead channel of the DC-3 with EL84 and the DC-5 with 6L6. DC-5 is way much better :twisted:

 

[MJ Slaughter]

I no longer feel like I need to get a DC 5.

you cannot compared the lead channel of the DC-3 with EL84 and the DC-5 with 6L6. DC-5 is way much better :twisted:

That is only your opinion and not a fact. I've owned the DC-5, DC-10 and currently DC-3. For my tastes I think the DC-3's lead channel sounds better. The only thing I like better about the other amps is the head room and girthy thump you get from high power amps. And of course you can compare the lead channel of both amps. Just find what works best for you.

 

[MarshMesa]

I'm sure the DC 5 is a bit more brutal, but my point was that the DC 3 is not a soft amp any means. I probably won't go for a DC 5 because I have doubts the clean channel would be better suited for me (I love the EL 84).

I recorded some tracks last night into pro-tools and double tracked them. With the gain on 6.5, this thing sounds like beast. I am going to record with much less gain in the future (probably around 5) for most songs.