DC-3 Grief

[plumptone]

I just need to vent, because this is driving me nuts. Two Points.

POINT 1.

I've played Boogies for nearly 20 years, and I love my current amp - a DC-3. It's a rocking little amp. But it's just not working right any more. When I get the volume over 2, it just starts to sound like crap. The low frequencies *seem* to be causing a vibration that's knocking something in the tone controlls all out of wack. It's like there's an intermittent short or something. Initially it only happened in the overdrive channel with the EQ engaged, and could be stopped when I jiggled the 80K slider. I assumed it was the slider that was acting up. So I tried contact cleaner (at Monsta's suggestion), but nothing happened. Now the problem is manifesting itself in both channels, but strangely will also stop if I jiggle the eq slider even when the EQ isn't engaged. I'm at a loss. (Not tubes - just re-tubed with a whole new set of JJs).

So there's this highly spoken of bloke in NJ (where I live) who does amp work, and he said I need to replace the EQ slider probably. Only thing is that I CANNOT get this guy to call me back so that I can find out whether or not he's ordering the part, or even whether he's willing to do the work. The guy needs to put down the bong and answer his messages! (If anyone knows someone other than Time Electronics in NJ who is GOOD, and will pick up the bloody phone, please let me know.)

POINT 2.
Dilemma: I love the amp, but I think I'm working it too hard. I'm considering a new purchase. The F-50. I played one, and it sounds really nice. Reminds me a lot of the way the DC-3 sounded brand new. But I want to treat myself and get the Bubinga cab and wicker grille. Anyone know whether the hardwood cabinet will have an impact on the way the amp sounds, and if so what that impact will be? Also, anyone have any idea how long it takes for a special order like this to be done?

I'm prepared for the wait, and obviously I'm going to have to get the DC-3 fixed in order to keep playing. It just totally bums me out that my old faithful seems to be dying.

 

[fdesalvo]

(I have no technical advice at this point, so here's some **** cheerleading for ya..)

Man, I feel your pain, but take heart, pilgrim! The DC3 is a highly sought after machine! It seems to be eclipsing the studio 22 in many people's regards, too. DC3s, particularly the heads, are my fav Boogs of all time.

Listen, it sucks when your amp is not functioning properly. It sucks even more when you have to do without it for any period of time as you wait for it to get fixed. Even more than this, it especially sucks to have your amp at some part-time-tech's house- knowing it's on the back burner or that he may not know what he is doing..on top of that, if you want boogie parts in your amp, he wll have to wait for them to ship if the items aren't in stock..

I know that you are in Jersey, but I would consider sending the chassis to Boogie or to a authorized shop. I am fortunate enough to have the Hollywood store within driving distance whenever I need work done, but it still didn't make it any easier to live without my amp for 2 weeks.

I reckon I would just send the little chassis to Boogie. Get it done right- let them bench test the entire thing and properly diagnose it for you. The techs and people at the Hollywood store are so **** passionate about their products andf they take pride in what they do. It gave me much confidence and comfort when my DC10 was in their hands.

But, most importantly, remember what attracted you to this amp in the first place and what held your soul in place when she was working right! Do not go quietly into that good night!!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

That's a bummer, but every amp needs some love some time.

I don't think it's dying, just needs a little TLC. It sounds like a loose solder connection to me. These amps get extremely hot, so hot that the wood is hot on top of the amp after just a couple of hours of moderate volume playing.

You shouldn't blame your amp. It's just a fact that when you squeeze that much tone, not to mention VOLUME, out of a tiny box with lots of parts in it, it will eventually need a bit of service.

If it were in my shop, here is what I would do (your tech should at least check these items):
1. Tighten all tube sockets and clean contacts.
2. Change all electrolytic capacitors
3. Re-Solder all connections that need it ( on my DC-2, I resoldered every connection in the amp)
4. Inspect the EQ slider. I would be willing to bet that it's not the slider but rather a solder connection on the EQ board that leads out to the rest of the amp, or the inputs to the board. Just because the problem goes away or changes with wiggling the slider does not make it the culprit.
If the slider works well, then it may not be the problem.

Most importantly, find a tech that doesn't get high. Don't get me wrong, I used to give Chong a run for his money, but you don't want some fool getting hurt or damaging your amp. If you don't feel like he is competent, or if his bedside manner isn't what it should be, find someone else. What people don't say can speak volumes, let your wallet *****-slap him.



Because of the heat, I'm going to replace the Power Tube circuit board in mine with Point to Point wiring this weekend.


Then, my only complaints with the amp will be that the Clean channel has more hiss than the Lead channel, and the switching power supply is so weak that I can't use a footswitch with LED's. Oh well, looks like more mods in the future.



You should be able to find a tech somewhere in NJ or a neighboring state that is willing to work. Maui had the same problem, which is actually why I decided to open my business here. The only guy on the island who fixed amps at the time was a prick and wanted way too much money. He would make you feel like it was your fault for breaking the amp.

My customers are really bummed that I'm leaving in a couple of months.




As for the new amp, I have no idea. I don't like the Boogie dealer here on Maui, so I haven't paid any attention to what is out there. You could call Boogie Hollywood or the factory and get these answers.

I know what you're saying about looking elsewhere. I found myself looking at Rivera amps on Ebay this morning. I have 3 Mesa's, 3 Vintage Fender's, and a Soldano Lucky 13 + 4 or 5 of my own brand Thomas Ampworks. I seem to be amp rich considering the fact that the last gig I played was about 8 years ago.



Anyway, all long *** posts aside, get it fixed. If it still doesn't do what you want, sell it and get the F-50 or keep it as a back up. It's a bummer that it is acting up, but it's probably 10-15 years old. Just the fact that a production model amp can work extremely well for that long and not need servicing at least a few times means that it really is built like a tank.

I just bought a $75 part for my wife's Ford Explorer yesterday. It has 30,000 miles on it but is 4 years old, the warranty is long gone. At least American amps are still solid for the most part, cuz their cars suck ***.

 

[fdesalvo]

Don't get me wrong, I used to give Chong a run for his money...

Yes, there was a time when I, too, would partake of the wacky tobaccy. Ahhh, when I was building my amps, I had awesome tools on my bench that I would employ for my partaking. I used to double-roll 'em and use my mini butane torch to seal the papers! Ahhh, but those were the old days... :mrgreen:

 

[plumptone]

Thanks for the responses you guys. I think I know what I'll do. I do love and cherish this amp, so I'm definitely holding on to it, and I'll get it fixed. I didn't mean to imply that the tech I'm working with is a total stoner or anything - that was just an expression. He IS Boogie authorized, and comes HIGHLY recommended. I think he's just got far more imprtant clients to worry about that some dude witha broken DC-3. You know?

If I don't hear back from him, I do have another guy who is authorized too, and who I have used before. I just wanted to give the other guy at Time a shot because he has a great rep.

And thanks for the tips, Monsta, I'll print that out and bring it with me when I go talk to whomever I end up dealing with.

Soooo...I think I'm going to bite the bullet here and get myself the F-50 in bubinga and wicker. I think I have the Missus convinced that it's a good idea. That way I can be the proud owner of a custom boogie AND keep the old DC-3 and break it out for those special occasions. I'm thinking of only using it sparingly from now on, so as to try and preserve it.

Cheers.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

AND keep the old DC-3 and break it out for those special occasions. I'm thinking of only using it sparingly from now on, so as to try and preserve it.

That's funny, I was thinking the exact opposite. I want to drag my DC-3 all over the place and beat the hell out of it so that I can refurbish it again. That way my Vintage Fenders can be the secret stash.

All I need to do is replace the grill cloth and it will look brand new. I recovered it in a wine colored tolex. I got it on Ebay for cheap because some fool had drawn some crazy stuff all over the side of it with a blue marker.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Ahhh, when I was building my amps, I had awesome tools on my bench that I would employ for my partaking. I used to double-roll 'em and use my mini butane torch to seal the papers! Ahhh, but those were the old days...

Can you show me how you do that? I keep getting the grill cloth stuck in my teeth. :mrgreen: :twisted:

 

[fdesalvo]

*sending Email* Bahahahahah! Er, ahem...

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I think the Pine tastes sweeter than Birch, but it's harder to clean the resin out later. :shock:

 

[jerseydrew]

I'm not sure where you are in NJ. If you're in northern NJ (Whippany), there's this place called Dave's Sound Repair - 973-386-5840. He's an authorized service center for Mesa Boogie. He's a tad whacky though, but he does a good job. He's repaired and serviced quite a few amps for me and has always done a good job.

I too own a DC-3 combo. It never broke so I never had to bring it in for service.

I've owned over a dozen different tube amps in my lifetime, but I will NEVER sell this one!

 

[plumptone]

I know exactly where Dave's sound is, and I have used him before. He's pretty good, and seems to know his stuff, but it's a very busy shop. I wanted to try this other guy out because of his reputation, but as of right now, I think I'll be taking the amp in to Dave's on Monday. I still haven't received a return phone call from him.

Regarding the previous...ahem...string of posts there about resin and whatnot, thought I'd chime in and mention that the name of my band just happens to be Jam-Bone. Go figure.

Anyway, I decided to go ahead with the order on an F-50. It'll ship in 10-12 weeks. Bubinga cab, wicker grille, leather handle and the original "Boogie" nameplate on the grille. Should look sweet - I know it sounds good. And the DC-3 is my third Boogie. I've also owned a Studio 22 I bought new in 1985 (biggest mistake EVER was selling that one), and I owned a DC-5 head with a 2x12 road ready cab that I unloaded because the shocks on my WV pickup truck were totally shot after hauling it around for a year or two. The DC-3 will never leave me, that I know. I just want it sounding the way I know it can.

The funny thing about this whole problem is that I don't have any problems when I hook the amp up to an external cab - so for the gig this weekend that's what I'll do. I just hope it holds up for this one - it's a 5-hour job.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

If it doesn't do it when you use an external cab, it may be the speaker connections or the speaker itself.

I just had a Fender Blues DeVille in my shop a couple of weeks ago. The owner thought it had blown speakers.

I tightened the speaker connectors, cleaned the 1/4" jack and plug, and replaced his rattling Power Tubes and the amp roared back to life.



You might want to check the connections before you take it in on Monday.




Otherwise, it is probably a loose or cold solder connection that is having the crap vibrated out of it. The internal speaker is the equivalent of having a jet engine strapped to a computer. Lots of electronics and lots of vibration.

I was just looking in my DC-2 last night and wondering how these things have held up so long. This little amp actually shimmy's back and forth when I'm rocking (I think I'm rocking ) the house.

 

[plumptone]

Initially it didn't seem to do it with the external cab hooked up, but lately I have noticed the probelm. It's definitely not so pronounced, but at the gig on Saturday I could clearly notice it. I checked the speaker connections on both ends and they seem to be good. If it's the speaker itself, I don't really know how to test for that.

So I'm taking it in today to have Dave at Dave's Sound lfor him to take a look at it. Funny thing though - when I called him yesterday (and this guy actually WAS available to talk on the phone), he went in to this tirade about how you should NEVER out JJs in a Boogie. I told him the problem started well before I retubed, but he wouldn't get off it. He insisted I bring my old tubes (I was using Electroharmonix). Fortunately I didn't chuck them out.

Monsta - I'm also bringing a print out of the things you suggested he should check at a minimum. I don't know how he's going to take it - he seems a bit funny that way. But I did want to mention that I saw one of your other posts about swapping out the balanced tube in V6 and replacing it with a standard tube. I also reinstalled an EH 12AX7 in V4, and I agree that the overdrive seems to open up a little that way. When I first put in the JJs I was loving it, but now I'm not so sure I'm getting all the drive out of the amp that I want. THe clean sound is a HUGE improvement though. Of course, this could all have something to do with whatever the underlying problem is.

So I'll post back once the work is done and the tech has had his way with the amp. Wish me luck. Fortunately I don't have any really important gigs until the end of the month. I'll be using a Fender HOt Rod Deluxe in the meantime. Not my first choice by a long shot, but it will suffice. Interestingly (or perhaps coincidentally) that amp suffers from a horrible rattle as well - but I'm going to have to live with it for the time being.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

he went in to this tirade about how you should NEVER out JJs in a Boogie.

1. Does the guy even play a Boogie? JJ's sound worlds better than the EH tubes do.

2. Does the guy know anything about tone?

3. It's your amp. Don't let some solder jockey tell you what your amp should sound like.


I've been using JJ's in most of my amps for many years now. I had a serious problem with EH tubes failing left and right, and sometimes taking things with them.

Maybe he had some problems with JJ's in the past, this is completely understandable. I had a whole shipment of Svetlana 12AX7's that were bad. This was right before Sovtek bought them out. The strang thing is, Winged C are actually better tubes since Sovtek bought the Svetlana name. Maybe they only sold the crappy equipment to Sovtek.



Maybe the guy had a JJ fail in a Boogie and it took out a transformer. Can happen to any amp with any tubes. It's the price we pay for bitchin tone.



Hope he gets your amp sorted out. Afterward, put the tubes in that your amp sounds good with.

I would use JJ Power Tubes from Eurotubes though so that you make sure the Bias is correct. This might be what the guy's problem is also, but I doubt it if he wants you to use EH tubes.



From what I've seen, there are many techs that have opinions based on things they have read, or random isolated anomolies.

I just had an EH 6V6 take out the Bias supply in a Champ. The amp worked fine with a blackplate RCA, but I wanted to get more clean headroom. The Champ is Cathode Biased and not adjustable. The EH drew too much current for a 1980's Bias circuit to handle and all of the magic smoke was released. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't use EH in a Champ, I would just make sure to watch the Bias circuit and alter it accordingly. This time it happened so fast that all I could do was replace it. **** magic smoke.



V4 is your Clean channel Gain stages.
V2 is the best one to replace if you want more distortion out of the Lead channel.

You could also try running EH in V1, V2, and V6 & JJ in V3, V4, and V5. This would give you the best of both worlds. More Distortion (although your Cleans will be hotter too since you are using EH in V1, you may have to adjust the Gain) and great Cleans. Just some thoughts.

 

[plumptone]

Thanks, Monsta. I can always count on you for a well thought out and poignant response.

I just took it down, and talked to the guy. It's eaxactly what you thought - he had a couple of real bad experiences with JJ's taking amps down in the past. He had actually recommended I put the EH power tubes in the amp., and I don't think they worked that well at all. Very brash sounding.

I'm going to keep the JJ power tubes. I took my old tubes down, and I'm having him test them. He has been instructed to keep all that are still solid. I will try your recommendations for replacing what's in V1, 2 and 6 with the known good EHs, and use the JJs in the other slots and see what that does. I'm mainly a strat and tele guy, so I have no problem embracing a little bite in my clean channel. I like it to feel spongy the way the old Voxs used to, but still with a little drive on top.

He seemed pretty confident that the problem will end up being related to an inductor in the eq circuit. We'll see. His shop was loaded with old fenders, a smattering of boogies and some guy had brought in a road king head. Thta thing has more knobs that I would know what do do with!!! I'm hopeful he'll do me right, and before long I'll be back in possession of the Boogie the way it used to be.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Now I seem to be going into my tirade. It's not aimed at you, but I have had some bad experiences with techs. That's why I started doing everything for myself.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that most techs just look at the drawings and replace parts. They don't care about your tone, which in the end, is why you play the gear that you do.




A good example is:
When I "Blackface" a Vintage Fender amp. I don't just swap parts. I have done some research and found the values for parts that make Blackface amps sound the way they do. They don't sound like they did when they were new. Part's values have drifted. Plate Resistors for Preamp tubes are usually somewhere around 115-120k ohms, not the 100k ohms specified on the print.

I also use parts that I know will create a certain sound. I.E. Mallory or IC film caps in Vintage amps or the Clean channel on high-gain amps, and Orange Drops in the Lead channels.

A decent tech will talk to the client and figure out what type of tone he or she is looking for. I use Ceramic Disk caps in certian amps and Silver Mica in others. It just depends on what effects the owner is using and the tone that is desired.



Sorry for the rant, but it brings me back to all the times that I've been fucked over by some *** who thinks he is god's gift.

Not saying that Dave is one of those, I don't know the guy, but he shouldn't be telling you what tone you need. I don't know too many people who like EH in their Boogies. I do use them in my Lee Jackson clone and in a couple of positions in my DC-3 and Lucky 13.

I used to use a Sunn head when I was in High School. Great tone if you cranked it, but it was 100 watts. We got the boot from a place we were playing (some chick's living room ) and it was snowing. The amp didn't like being that hot and being moved into the COLD night air. It broke. I took it to Smith Music & TV in my home town. They used to be just Smith TV. The guys were dicks. They told me that I needed a $140 Output Transformer, or I could pay the $45 Bench Fee (which they never told me about). I was broke, they ended up with the amp. If I knew now.......I would have known that it just needed tubes.

We, as musicians, have to stick together. A good tech should also be a seasoned guitar player, NOT a TV repairman.




Rant mode is officially off. I just want to make sure that you get the tone you are looking for. Plus, I'm "Pre-Coffee," so I may be irritable.

Let me know what he finds. I'm always interested in how things got fixed and what the broken symptoms were.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

WOW, that last post sounds preachy. Sorry.



What did you find out about your amp?

 

[plumptone]

Hey Monsta. Still no word. I took it in on Tuesday, and told the guy it's not a rush. I want him to do it right. As soon as I get word, I'll be sure to let you know. Cheers.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I just noticed that mine is acting funny.

I get a hum when using a footswitch, but only on the Clean channel. I thought it was a noise in the house, but I've tried the same pedals on my DC-2 and have no hum, when plugged into the same outlet.


Oh well, back under the hood. The mechanic's car never runs perfectly.

Thanks for the update. You're probably right telling him not to rush. Everybody is prone to make mistakes when under pressure.

 

[plumptone]

**** I miss the amp. Fortunately we don't have any gigs this weekend.

If you're interested here's a link to a recording of some of the first set we did last weekend. It's recorded by a single stereo mic right into some digital gizmo the bassplayer has. Placement was basically on the floor, center stage right in front of the monitor array - s vocals are pretty lousy sounding (as they usually do out the monitors). But anyway, it gives you an idea of the sound I go for.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.jam-bone.org/sebastianos/sebastianos.htm