Can't get a usable lead tone out of Mark V:25

[Schpleef]

Hey, apologies if this isn't the right spot for this question

I have had the Mark V 25 for about 6 months or so. I use it while playing with a band that does mainly funk, blues, southern rock, jam band type music and a lot of our music consists of high gain lead playing. I have gotten plenty of good use out of channel 1 on the amp and am able to get pretty good cleans and low gain tones. As soon as I switch over to channel 2 for a lead it just sounds horrendous and I can't get a good sound out of it. All my high gain playing ends up being done on channel 1 by just adding tubescreamers and overdrive/distortion. I hit the pedal to switch to the mesa lead channel and it just kills the tone of whatever song we are playing and does not jive. And then when I switch back over to regular channel 1 + tubescreamer gain it is a really awkward transition

I feel like Im only using half of my amp. Why can't I dial in a lead guitar tone that sounds usable? I play through high gain amp sims (sgear, bias fx, etc) and it sounds amazing when I play the same licks with the same guitar. But today I brought my Mark V home from my practice space and attempted the same licks and they are awful, it is like I forgot how to play guitar when I try to play on the mesa lead channel. I have seen the Ola and John Petrucci videos, as well as the Mark V settings thread, but somehow still can't dial in a decent sound. I have spent a lot of time on it today before quitting out of frustration, feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back.

My starting channel 2 settings were:

Xtreme
Gain: 11 Treble: 12 Mid: 8:30 Bass: Off Presence: 12:30 Master:12 Eq: on or off both sound trash

After a few hours of messing around today I have got this:

Mark IV
Gain: 12 Treble: 1pm Mid:10 Bass: off Prescence:12 Master: 9 (bedroom)

Current Channel 1 settings for reference:
(seems to work good for jazzy, funky, bluesy stuff but we like to go heavier about half the time)
Gain: 10:30 Treble: 12ish Mid: 8:30 Bass: 9 Presence:12 Master: 1pm

But I still hate the sound. It sounds either too ice picky or ***** or middy or something but it literally feels unplayable when I switch over to it, like Im back on my first year of playing guitar. It is quite frustrating. I didn't start playing music so that I can spend an eternity turning knobs and still hate my sound, this is the opposite of what I enjoy about guitar.

Anyone had this experience? It sucks to make such strides in my actual technique and playing and then feel like I am held back because of my gear. What has worked for you? Do I need a new or simpler amp? I like channel 1 and while it still sometimes gives me trouble(too sharp or too much mids) I have grown to love it.

 

[Schpleef]

DIdn't get any help here, but I think I am going to try and replace the tubes with EL84s. If that doesn't fix it I am just getting a new amp. After doing more side by side comparisons my playing sounds many many times better through amp sims than through this thing. Any recommendations for new amps? My band's other guitarist has a lonestar, I'm considering going the opposite end and getting axe fx or something

 

[mace]

For the high gain leads, you might try running the bass a bit higher at 8 to 9 o'clock and also a bit more MID like 10 to 11 o'clock. Then, engage the EQ and start with the classic V setting with scooped mids, but set the outside sliders about 2/3 up, middle slider 2/3 down and keep the other two sliders on the mid-line to start with.

I'd also recommend running a bit more gain, like 1 to 3 o'clock, for high gain leads and you can dial back presence or far right EQ slider if it is too harsh.

What speakers are you using? I have the Mark V:25 combo and the little 10" that it comes with it OK but I strongly prefer a 2x12 cab with V30s as it sounds like a different and bigger amp. I play mostly old school metal 80's-90's and rock stuff. Your speaker and cab will make a big difference.

What mode do you use on Channel 1?

Lastly, there may be something wrong with the amp?? It seems odd that Channel 1 tones would be good (including CRUNCH?) and Channel 2 tones would be unplayable. Very strange...

As a side note... this board doesn't get a ton of traffic like reddit or something, so it may take days to get a response!

 

[fjk1138]

I feel your pain. The Mark IV mode is my favorite on the amp, and even trying John Petrucci's settings (and a guitar with JP's pickups, no less) it doesn't sound the same. Part of the issue is that I use a very well broken in C90 Black Shadow speaker, whereas JP uses V30s. The MkV:25 is my 4th Mesa amp, and since day one I've used the C90s (not by choice, the Triple Rec I bought was plugged into them at the store) and just seem to prefer them (trust me, I've done COUNTLESS C90 vs V30 comparison tests). I've tried 2 separate V30s (a Chinese one, and the actual Mesa version) but I have been unable to bond with either of them. Part of that may be that I have not broken the Mesa V30 in enough, but I digress...

To me, the toughest thing to set correctly on the MV:25 in any setting is the 5 band EQ sliders, especially the 750 and 2200 ones (2200 being the absolute pickiest POS ever). Even the most micro level changes seem to make a huge difference on the sound. I used to have the full size Mark V 90 watt years ago, and the one thing that I REALLY liked on that amp was that knob that could dial in the V shape of the EQ for you - not only was it preset to the classic V EQ shape, it also allowed you to control the overall depth of the EQ. I found this to be much more satisfying (and far easier to use) than the 5 band itself. In fact, I've been having enough of a hard time with the MkV:25 that I actually am on the waiting list for a good old 100w Dual Rectifier because I want to go back to a simpler sound (current wait time until August....).

I think part of the problem in your case may be ear fatigue - you've been using CH1 exclusively with other pedals that when you change to CH 2 it's going to sound foreign to you. And you know what? If that channel works for you and covers everything you need? Who cares - no one will judge you. But if you still want to try to use Ch 2 (and I don't blame you for that either), the best advice I would give for the C+/Mark IV sounds is to try putting all the knobs at 12, then start playing around.

For me, I find the gain really doesn't need to go past the red light (2 o'clock ish), the treble no higher than 12 or 1 o'clock, mid roughly 10 o'clock, bass about 9 or 10 o'clock, and presence at 12 noon. For the 5 band EQ, I pretty much do the V shape but again, the 750 and 2200 sliders really make or break the sound. I put the 750 right on the bottom line, and seem to vary between putting the 2200 either where it catches in the middle section, or just above/below that. There are days where I question my hearing because that 2200 slider is either too much or too little, I swear.

Beyond all that, you might want to try a simpler amp. I have used a Marshall JVM 205H with awesome results, and it's an absolute gain monster, especially channel 4. I found the sound a bit too compressed though, and prefer the more "open" sound of the Mesa amps. If you don't mind waiting a few months, you can go for a full-size Dual Rec. The lower wattage Rectoverb 25s are available at Sweetwater (as of this posting) also.

Good luck, hope this helped you somewhat, and you finally get the sound(s) you are after.

PS - If you go the all electronic route, skip the Kemper Profiler - if you think you're going down a rabbit hole with constant knob tweaking now, stay far away from the Kemper.

 

[Ucci]

well this is second v25 i have had. first was crap just faded into nothingness. tones were worse than a junk amp.
This second one had excellent channel 1. but if you set channel 1 on say 1 o'clock. same on 2 the volume difference is 3 times as much as channel 1.
tried 1 at 25 2 at 10 same scenario. I too can not get decent tone on the extreme or mk4 settings. This amp is not even 6 months old and it has had 2 tube swaps to no avail.
selling Cheap

 

[mace]

Not sure what is going on with your amp. With my Mark V:25 combo it pretty easy to volume match between channels 1 and 2 by using the Master knobs. I tend to run channel 1 clean with pretty low gain (Fat, gain at 10 to 11 o'clock). Gain on channel 2 is around 2 to 3 o'clock. And yeah, the Masters are set different so that the volume matches but who cares? The gain structure of each channel is radically different so, yeah, the Master knobs will need to be adjusted accordingly.

As far as getting usable tone, that's another matter of course. It may not be the amp for you if it has fresh tubes and is working properly but yet still sucks. Or, it may just take some tweaking and dialing in.

 

[Newysurfer]

Hey, apologies if this isn't the right spot for this question

I have had the Mark V 25 for about 6 months or so. I use it while playing with a band that does mainly funk, blues, southern rock, jam band type music and a lot of our music consists of high gain lead playing. I have gotten plenty of good use out of channel 1 on the amp and am able to get pretty good cleans and low gain tones. As soon as I switch over to channel 2 for a lead it just sounds horrendous and I can't get a good sound out of it. All my high gain playing ends up being done on channel 1 by just adding tubescreamers and overdrive/distortion. I hit the pedal to switch to the mesa lead channel and it just kills the tone of whatever song we are playing and does not jive. And then when I switch back over to regular channel 1 + tubescreamer gain it is a really awkward transition

I feel like Im only using half of my amp. Why can't I dial in a lead guitar tone that sounds usable? I play through high gain amp sims (sgear, bias fx, etc) and it sounds amazing when I play the same licks with the same guitar. But today I brought my Mark V home from my practice space and attempted the same licks and they are awful, it is like I forgot how to play guitar when I try to play on the mesa lead channel. I have seen the Ola and John Petrucci videos, as well as the Mark V settings thread, but somehow still can't dial in a decent sound. I have spent a lot of time on it today before quitting out of frustration, feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back.

My starting channel 2 settings were:

Xtreme
Gain: 11 Treble: 12 Mid: 8:30 Bass: Off Presence: 12:30 Master:12 Eq: on or off both sound trash

After a few hours of messing around today I have got this:

Mark IV
Gain: 12 Treble: 1pm Mid:10 Bass: off Prescence:12 Master: 9 (bedroom)

Current Channel 1 settings for reference:
(seems to work good for jazzy, funky, bluesy stuff but we like to go heavier about half the time)
Gain: 10:30 Treble: 12ish Mid: 8:30 Bass: 9 Presence:12 Master: 1pm

But I still hate the sound. It sounds either too ice picky or ***** or middy or something but it literally feels unplayable when I switch over to it, like Im back on my first year of playing guitar. It is quite frustrating. I didn't start playing music so that I can spend an eternity turning knobs and still hate my sound, this is the opposite of what I enjoy about guitar.

Anyone had this experience? It sucks to make such strides in my actual technique and playing and then feel like I am held back because of my gear. What has worked for you? Do I need a new or simpler amp? I like channel 1 and while it still sometimes gives me trouble(too sharp or too much mids) I have grown to love it.

ahh you post is full of holes.
You say you play "mainly funk, blues, southern rock," but none of these styles use high gain tones.
They're all clean to low gain overdrive - not even distortion.

If your tone is ice picky, *****, or middy, it's user error imo - not the amp - cos the amp can be EQ'ed to sound like almost anything.

We all have different tastes but I would not recommend Mark V for anyone mainly playing funk, blues & southern rock cos they'd only use 30% of the amps modes - which is what you say you do.

For me my fav channel is the Mark IIC+ mode but I use all modes, and I can't find a tone anywhere which is not great

 

[pmac11]

Resurrecting this thread.
I have the V25 head. Try the IIC+ voicing with the gain set low, around 9 o'clock. There's a lead tone there. My two cents anyway.

You couldn't have made a better choice for clean tones. Few amps out there compare to this one.

 

[stewiecopeland]

DIdn't get any help here, but I think I am going to try and replace the tubes with EL84s.

I don't understand -- it comes stock with EL84s right?

 

[Fcal124]

This is weird. I've owned quite a few different Mesa amps over the years. I find my MKV 35 to be the best one I've had so far. I use the clean channel with pedals, and the MKIV channel on it's own. Play with the tone controls and the EQ.

 

[KRichter]

"but I think I am going to try and replace the tubes with EL84s"
Sure you got the right amp?