Caliber 50 + vs MKIIA

[mark2boogie]

Hello All,

I serviced many Boogies, but not too much Calibers, and it's nearly 10 years ago forn the last one. I wasn't too much impressed at that time, but my memory may be faulty...

I own a MKIIA that I extensively spoke about in the Mark Series section. This is a wonderful amp, indeed, but it is a heavy anvil-like weight amp : 33kg alone, 40kg in flycase. I would not part from it, but sometimes, for reharsal, something lighter would be pleasing...

I wonder if the Caliber 50 + (6L6 version / 50W), which only weights 22kg (as my SF Deluxe Reverb), would compare with the MKIIA, taking in count its limitations, indeed. I need a great clean tone, and a moderately overdriven but well-sustained lead à la Carlos Santana, and sometimes less for smooth blues. No Metal, no aggressivity, no compulsory need of a tremendous modern gain for me, but sustain and smoothness... See the picture ?

To sum up, My MKIIA is smooth and singing both in clean and lead. So would the Caliber 50 + able to do the same, with the advantage of the lightweight ?

Thanks for your advices and experiences,

A+!

 

[mark2boogie]

OK - I have the answer...

I serviced a few weeks ago a nice Caliber 50 + head and soon after a combo with a C-90 inside, I had the time to test them, and the only thing I noticed is that I dislike both completely... No decent tone from it, except noise and agressivity. A garbage king... Exit !

A+!

 

[jpdennis]

Just my 2 cents.

I have a .50 Caliber with the EL84s. It must be an early version since it has the regular metal switchs (not the rockers and the PCB is dated 1985 while the PCB in my Mark III is dated 1984). The only few things are that I had it completely serviced when I picked it up over two years ago, added a nice low noise mid-high flow fan, am using the EV that came with my Mark III, upgraded to a Mercury Magnetics output transformer, and learned how to use Deoxit to clean the jacks and tube sockets when I change tubes and retention the sockets. This thing has everything you have asked for. I have 2 other mesa products and have A/B'd against. I play worship music on Sundays (all but about 30 Sundays since Jan 1992) and have used this amp almost exclusively for the past 2+ years. In addition I have been working with a modern C&W band which has included an AC/DC song, some SRV, Journey, and blues. The other guitarist is using a Dr Z Stangray as well as a Fender Super Sonic 22. He and everyone else who hears me play this .50 Cal is amazed at the tone I can get. I was using the ODs on my M13 until I finally got the preamp tubes dialed in and I use Mesa green EL84s as well as have a much better feel for adjusting the master and volume. Now I no longer need the ODs or any distortions. It can give me clear pristine cleans, snappy SVR blues chimes with sustain, as well as the liquid smooth Santana solos when I chose. It can also do some metal if need be. And I have had the opportunity to have it produced through many different PA systems by several different sound engineers who love the tone at a controlled level. In addition, I have used it fully opened and unproduced in a couple of clubs which allowed me to open it up and it cut through the mix and killed the other amps for tone and clarity. :mrgreen:

In fact I have issues with my Mark III because Mike B and I believe the Mark III should sound better than the .50 Cal - but it doesn't. I have the following thread started since Mike asked me to bring in the Mark III for an end-to-end go through and some "fix" he said was supposed to be done anyway.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=57819

Since you have more opportunities than I do to service and then play these things I thought I would let you know my experience with the .50 Cal I have. I am confused why there isn't more talk about the 6BQ5 .50 Cals as well as the varying reports of the .50 Cal +, though that could be because you have had the opportunity to A/B against a Mark II in real time. Or am I very fortunate to have found either some rare beast or perfect combination of parts and routine maintence? :?:

Dennis

 

[mark2boogie]

Well, Dennis,

I really would have expected for the C50+ to sound like my old Boogie, but none of the two I recently had for service were able to get a decent sounding - at least to my taste and in instant (A/B) comparison with my MKIIA, as you pointed it.

Some arguments I noticed :
- the chassis-integrated reverb is sounding blunt and metallic, pretty unusable for me
- the channels interacts each other, so I found impossible to dial a decent clean with a decent lead
- crunchy tones are blunt and fully intermodulated on double-bends
- the leads sounds like circular saws
- the cleans are bassless and the signal/noise ratio is simply awful

This amp seemed to me to be voiced for an agressive sound, suitable for punk-rock or metal... This is definetly not my taste, and it's a real pity because I had the opportunity to buy the nice combo version at a very affordable price... But the sound was not affordable to me !

The solution I finally found is to momentarily return to the Tolex cabinet my MKIIA and install an Eminence ME12-100PE-8 (the predecessor and direct equivalent of the Legend 1218) instead of the EVM12L, and use the original matching padded Mesa Boogie cover, but I still conserve the Hardwood cab + EVM12L + flycase on duty.

The total mass decreased from 42,5kg to 24kg, that is to say something similar to the C50+, but with the sound of my MarkIIA - even if the ME12 sounds and breaks-up more like an ALTEC 417-8H, and has not the "width and efficiency" of the EVM12L...

A+

 

[jpdennis]

The solution I finally found is to momentarily return to the Tolex cabinet my MKIIA and install an Eminence ME12-100PE-8 (the predecessor and direct equivalent of the Legend 1218) instead of the EVM12L, and use the original matching padded Mesa Boogie cover, but I still conserve the Hardwood cab + EVM12L + flycase on duty.

The total mass decreased from 42,5kg to 24kg, that is to say something similar to the C50+, but with the sound of my MarkIIA - even if the ME12 sounds and breaks-up more like an ALTEC 417-8H, and has not the "width and efficiency" of the EVM12L...

A+

Looks like the best for the versatility you are looking for.

I have heard the C50+ and am much happier with my 6BQ5 C50. Maybe having all the control knobs on th C50+ gets in the way of truely dialing in a great clean versus grit on the fly type of balance. Don't know for sure. My C50 is just real simple to use.

I think I failed to mention that I had the Mercury Magnetics reverb transformer for the Fender Blackface installed in my C50 so maybe that has something to do with the depth and tonal quality of the reverb I get out of the C50. And since I use the EVM12L I am only reducing the weight by the smaller transformers, tubes, and fewer circuit components. However, my Mark III is finished and I am traveling to Petaluma this Monday to pick it up. Should have a better idea about tonal and control comparisons after a few weeks of playing the Mark III versus my C50.

Dennis