cable length

[robyrobster12]

Hey all , Im brand spankin new to his forum and would like to ask my first question. Does cable length effect your tone? or does it not matter? i use a 21 foot monster cable from guitar to pedals, then a 20 foot cable to my amp. [/b]

 

[6L6C]

Yeah it does have affect on your tone but allot of it breaks down to your ears. Even different brands can sound different on your rig. I have been using Canare cable for years which is kind of similar to Mogami, but just redid my rig a few weeks ago with Planet Waves cable (just wanted to try). I think it sounds better; I have a few pedals before the preamp brought in and out with a router switcher (so a little cabling going on there) and the cable on the effects loop. The rig sounds different for sure.

Just making a point, back to you.

So basically you have 40 feet or better from guitar to amp with some pedals in-between at around the 20 foot point. Certainly not that bad. But you left something important out, what pedals are you using are they true bypass or are they buffered? This can affect your tone a bit too. The pedals that do have buffers are like anything else some are better than others. The buffers can help for sure with long cable runs especially at the midpoint. And if you have a few pedals what cords are in between them?

 

[robyrobster12]

I dont have many pedals. all i use are cry baby wah, robert keeley katana clean boost, a boss tunner. i dont have many effect either just boss delay. i plan on getting a mxr compressor a flanger and phazer.

and im having trouble figuring out the fx loop so i can put that delay (and other pedals i plan on getting) behind the amp. for some reason i just cant get it right. can you help?
i have a roadster combo

 

[6L6C]

Since you already have a Keeley product my I recommend the Keeley compressor (4 knob version) instead of the MXR.

As far as the effects loop not really clear what the problem is? Is it that it does not work or are you looking for some cabling solution?

But something you said did get my attention. About putting a few pedals in the loop and leaving them behind the amp, how would you control whats on and off? You could control the effects loop with the footswitch that part is no problem, but the loop is either on or off it can’t select which pedals you want.

You might want to look at a multi processor like a TC Electronics G-Major or a Rocktron Xpression which can give you an arsenal of effects. Processors in general (not in stone) work better than stomp boxes in the loop of an amp. Some stomp boxes (there again SOME) don’t react to well in the loop.

Bottom line if you want to use stomp boxes in the loop you are going to have to cable them out to bring them up front next to the footswitch for the amp. Which means in your case about 20 feet to go up to the footswitch and another 20 to return to the amp. With a processor it stays back by the amp with nice short cable runs for the loop and you would control that up front with a midi foot switch of some type, tons of them out there.

 

[robyrobster12]

well with stomp boxes isnt it easyer and cheeper? I you want to choose what effect you want to run in the loop you just press the pedal... right, or is there something im missing

 

[6L6C]

well with stomp boxes isn’t it easyer and cheeper? I you want to choose what effect you want to run in the loop you just press the pedal... right, or is there something im missing

No, you are right, like I said I was a little unclear what you meant originally. Stomp boxes are a little easier to set up for sure. Being cheaper depends on the way you look at it. Take a Rocktron Xpression for example you have, Hush (noise reduction), compressor, EQ, Delay, Reverb, Tremolo, Phaser, Flanger, Chorus, Pitch Shifter, and Rotary Speaker, buy all of those pedals. It’s going to cost way more than if you just got an Xpression. But there again you are not going to use all effects to begin with.
But pedals tend to defiantly have more of a personality! I have been a rack processor guy for 20 + years now and still am. But there are certain pedals that I like before the preamp and are now also part of my rig in my case Keeley compressor, BB Preamp, MXR EVH Flanger.
So the cool part (or at least I think so) no matter which way you go pedals or processor you can’t go wrong does not have to be one or the other can be a mix of both. One does not make the other obsolete.
You all ready have the most important part, an A** Kicking amp!!

 

[robyrobster12]

yeah i get what your saying with the price of the prossesor vs. buying all the pedals.

plus im building my own pedals from general guitar gadgets. its alot cheeper that way and its fun to do! and the stuff is high quality just broken down into parts. like for example yesterday i finished my ts 808 and i sounds just amazing. and i go allout to by painting it and having my friend sketch something for me with a name. it pretty tight. ill post a pick of it when i figure out how to do it. later

 

[6L6C]

plus im building my own pedals from general guitar gadgets.

Pretty cool! You have me looking at a few of those kits.

 

[robyrobster12]

hey did you ever invest in one of those pedal kits?

 

[cruncher]

I have a question re: cable length in the effects loop.

I'm planning on picking up either a TC Nova Delay or a Boss DD-20 to use with my Roadster. From what I understand, since I use my amp for distortion, I'm best off putting the delay pedal in the fx loop as opposed to in front of the amp. I'd like to put the delay pedal on my pedalboard, which will require it to be connected between two 20' cables. The manual recommends cables of 3' or less for connections in the fx loop and I'd be looking at 40' total. Can I get away with this if I use good quality cables, or will this be a problem?

 

[TTSTWO]

cruncher,

I'd stick with the the 3' or less that the manual recommends. Last weekend, I put a delay effect into the loop with longer cables, 5' or more long and it was making some strange sounds so I unplugged it. I didn't try the delay out front after that so I'm not sure If I'd blame it on the cable length. I made a couple 1.5' cables last night and will try it again this weekend and also try it out front. This is the first Mesa I've owned AND the first time I've attempted using an FX loop so obviously my technical knowledge in this area is not as sound as some of the more experienced folks in here.

Tom T.

 

[Telemaster]

Longer cable length will rob you of some of the high freqs...some prefer that bit of
mellowing...
read this for more info:
http://www.aqdi.com/cablecap.htm

 

[SonOfIAm]

In order to use my delay in the effects loop of my Lonestar, I have to use a total of 60 feet of cable, 30 each way! Needless to say, using regular instrument cable was not an option. I have made my own cables using Canare Quad Core mic cable and attach all 4 wires to the tip of my 1/4" TS connectors and use the braid as the ground. I use the same cables in 4 foot lengths in my home setup and the only thing that I've noticed is that I have to turn up the effects send about 15% when I'm using the longer cables.

 

[lerxst88]

hey did you ever invest in one of those pedal kits?

GGG is awesome!!!! I built the green ringer and the orange squeezer for my dad and brother for christmas.

As far as cable goes capacitance is a word you should get familiar with. from building kits you have no doubt run into capacitors. basically a capacitor is two metal plates with a thin film between them and charge is stored between the plates. a guitar cable is very similar because it has a positive wire wrapped in rubber (or teflon), wrapped in the negative wire), and finally wrapped in another layer of rubber. youll notice that the negative and positive form kind of a cylindrical capacitor! if the length is long enough and the "insulator" is weak enough the cable itself will effectively become a capacitor! and since one side of it is negative it will bleed off your treble frequencies to ground. to avoid this keep your pedal lengths short, use high quality cables, and maybe next time when shopping for a cable bring your multi meter with! also Boss-type pedals usually have a buffer built in so if that is the case, the length of your "capacitor cable" will effectively be shortened! Remeber! (epsilon naught X Area)/(distance between plates)=capacitance!

As for the effects loop, once rule of thumb is to put all the effects you want to be less noticeable in the loop and the more stand out ones in front. Example: a touch of reverb and delay in the effects loop, your favorite wah out in front. Chorus pedals and phasers can sound good either in front or in the loop but it depends on your taste.

sorry for the long response (especially with the capacitors) but im a physics major and we have been talking about this stuff for weeks!