Buying a mid '90 Dual Recto...

[DS-1]

Hi guys...in the last live I did, I had a really bad trip about my Triple...sometimes I can't turn it up when I play in small venues, so I can't hear the right sound from that head...and I feel that It can't give me the sound that I want, plus I have problems to be heard in the mix (I use it with a Marshall 4x12 with 4 Vintage 30 at 8 ohm). Ibought it because I need 3 channels: the clean and two similar distortions, one of them with less gain that the third channel. I've found this mid '90 Dual Recto that seems to be best sounding here, for what I've red. My group is here: www.myspace.com/sulaventrebianco. Do you think that a mid '90 can sound better than a new Triple? There's any boost you know that can makes sound the 2nd channel of this Dual with more gain, trying to emulate the 3th channel of the Triple? I hope I'll understand all, sorry for my English!

 

[Elpelotero]

The majority will tell you older Rectifiers sound better. However, they have to be turned up loud just like your Triple. Just because it's a 90's recto doesn't mean it'll magically work at low volumes.

There's no boost to make channel 2 sound like channel 3, no matter what version of the amp you have.

If you need 3 channels, a 2 channel amp is obviously limited and won't give you what u need.

 

[DS-1]

Thanks for the reply. Do you think that a Dual 3ch will works better than a Triple, or it's the same thing? I was thinking about buying a Dual and pull off tubes, to make it works at 50 watts. Is it a good thing to do to reduce a bit volume and have a nice tone, or is it useful due to the fact that 50w are too much to play at low volumes?

 

[Elpelotero]

The difference between 50w and 100w is only 3dB. Mind you it takes the human ear a full 10dB to realize a doubling of volume. Furthermore, it only takes 3dB to notice that there has been an increase/decrease in volume.

50w on a Mesa is still VERY loud. The Dual and Triple are almost exactly the same except one is louder than the other. It's really not worth investing in a Dual to pull tubes unless you really feel it'll be worth it. 50w will get you through a loud gig just as well as 100w can. It may be worth searching for people who have had similar situations to yours. My opinion though is that if you already have a triple, I'd just stay with it.

 

[DS-1]

So you think it would be useless trying to reduce a bit the wattage? So I'd like to find a way to make my Triple sounds better at low volumes...my feeling is that when I turn down the volume, it sounds really bad, empty, as almost all 50-100W heads I believe. Is there any tricks to make it sounds fuller even at lower volumes? Keep in mind that I usually use:

- bold;
- silicon diodes rectifier;
- loop on (with several effects);
- pre volumes low (11 o'clock) and master high (1 o'clock);
- vintage mode on channel 2 and 3.

 

[Elpelotero]

You have the channel volumes at 11 and the Master volume at 1 and you call that low volume!!!!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!! That is ear splitting volume! You can break windows with that!

 

[siggy14]

Here are some tricks for you for those situations where you can turn it up to what you like.

1. Get a hotplate, will do you wonders. Never go past the 8DB drop though, you start to lose tone. Use the high and low switchs on it to your liking.

2. By yourself some soundproofing foam and cover the two top, or two bottem speakers. I usually use a bongy cord to hold it in place but rope will do too. This will cut a good 20 to 30 percent of your stage volume, looks crappy but it works!

3. By yourself a 1x12 isolation cabinet to run in parallel with your 4x12, this will cut 1/5 of your over all stage volume.

4. If you cant get a isolation cab, get another 2x12, put it behind your rig with the speakers facing the floor or both speakers covered up with sound proofing phone. Overall this will cut roughly 1/3 of your stage volume level/

5. Go like some of the pro's, get a dummy cab up on stage and put your main speaker under the stage or backstage. Of course this only works if you are playing places that have the room backstage or under the stage and if you are playing a place that nice, more then likley it is big enough to handle your triple.

So you think it would be useless trying to reduce a bit the wattage? So I'd like to find a way to make my Triple sounds better at low volumes...my feeling is that when I turn down the volume, it sounds really bad, empty, as almost all 50-100W heads I believe. Is there any tricks to make it sounds fuller even at lower volumes? Keep in mind that I usually use:

- bold;
- silicon diodes rectifier;
- loop on (with several effects);
- pre volumes low (11 o'clock) and master high (1 o'clock);
- vintage mode on channel 2 and 3.

 

[DS-1]

You have the channel volumes at 11 and the Master volume at 1 and you call that low volume!!!!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!! That is ear splitting volume! You can break windows with that!

... of course this is my rehearsal volume, but when I play live I have to turn it down, so in this case come up what I really don't like: the crappy sound of the amp!!!

Here are some tricks for you for those situations where you can turn it up to what you like.

1. Get a hotplate, will do you wonders. Never go past the 8DB drop though, you start to lose tone. Use the high and low switchs on it to your liking.

2. By yourself some soundproofing foam and cover the two top, or two bottem speakers. I usually use a bongy cord to hold it in place but rope will do too. This will cut a good 20 to 30 percent of your stage volume, looks crappy but it works!

3. By yourself a 1x12 isolation cabinet to run in parallel with your 4x12, this will cut 1/5 of your over all stage volume.

4. If you cant get a isolation cab, get another 2x12, put it behind your rig with the speakers facing the floor or both speakers covered up with sound proofing phone. Overall this will cut roughly 1/3 of your stage volume level/

5. Go like some of the pro's, get a dummy cab up on stage and put your main speaker under the stage or backstage. Of course this only works if you are playing places that have the room backstage or under the stage and if you are playing a place that nice, more then likley it is big enough to handle your triple.

Thanks for all these tricks, siggy. Do you think that using a 2x12 instead of a 4x12 can solve some of my problems? I was thinking to buy a 2x12 vertical Recto, that can give me a nice sound with the shape of a 4x12...

 

[siggy14]

Yes a 2x12 will help, fills up more room in your rehearsal also like i said you can point it away from the crowd and sound man and even face it towards the floor ad it will let you crank your amp up more.

You have the channel volumes at 11 and the Master volume at 1 and you call that low volume!!!!!!!!!?????!!!!!!!! That is ear splitting volume! You can break windows with that!

... of course this is my rehearsal volume, but when I play live I have to turn it down, so in this case come up what I really don't like: the crappy sound of the amp!!!

Here are some tricks for you for those situations where you can turn it up to what you like.

1. Get a hotplate, will do you wonders. Never go past the 8DB drop though, you start to lose tone. Use the high and low switchs on it to your liking.

2. By yourself some soundproofing foam and cover the two top, or two bottem speakers. I usually use a bongy cord to hold it in place but rope will do too. This will cut a good 20 to 30 percent of your stage volume, looks crappy but it works!

3. By yourself a 1x12 isolation cabinet to run in parallel with your 4x12, this will cut 1/5 of your over all stage volume.

4. If you cant get a isolation cab, get another 2x12, put it behind your rig with the speakers facing the floor or both speakers covered up with sound proofing phone. Overall this will cut roughly 1/3 of your stage volume level/

5. Go like some of the pro's, get a dummy cab up on stage and put your main speaker under the stage or backstage. Of course this only works if you are playing places that have the room backstage or under the stage and if you are playing a place that nice, more then likley it is big enough to handle your triple.

Thanks for all these tricks, siggy. Do you think that using a 2x12 instead of a 4x12 can solve some of my problems? I was thinking to buy a 2x12 vertical Recto, that can give me a nice sound with the shape of a 4x12...

 

[DS-1]

Yes a 2x12 will help, fills up more room in your rehearsal also like i said you can point it away from the crowd and sound man and even face it towards the floor ad it will let you crank your amp up more.

I think I'll buy a 2x12 and then try if it works better than the 4x12. I was thinking to try EL34 in my Triple, too. I believe that it can help my amp to cut better the mix: the other guitarist has an italian brand head (100w) with 4xEL34 and it can be heard way better than me, even at lower volumes, due to the fact that its sound is more "open". What tubes do you think I should install? I wouldn't like to put Mesa's on it, because of they're very expensive. Are there alternatives to these that you think can work well?

 

[JW123]

I use a Weber Mass with my Triple, I have 2 tubes pulled also. If you want more definition in your sound and want the amp to cut more lower the gain and raise the master. The more gain you use with these amps the more mushy it get to my ears.

If you need 3 channels keep the triple and figure out how to use it. The Triples are awesome. Get the manual out or download it here like I did and learn to get the sound you want. A mid 90s isnt going to make that much difference.

 

[DS-1]

I use a Weber Mass with my Triple, I have 2 tubes pulled also. If you want more definition in your sound and want the amp to cut more lower the gain and raise the master. The more gain you use with these amps the more mushy it get to my ears.

If you need 3 channels keep the triple and figure out how to use it. The Triples are awesome. Get the manual out or download it here like I did and learn to get the sound you want. A mid 90s isnt going to make that much difference.

Thanks to you, too. What do you mean with "raise the master"? Are you talkin' about the single master channels or the master loop? I have the loop on (with several pedals on it) and I still don't understand well how the master and the send\mix knobs on the rear affect the sound. What tube have you pulled on your Triple? Do you ear differences? What impedance do you use now with these tubes pulled? Do you think using different tubes (now I have stock tubes, almost 2 years old...I was thinking to try EL-34, too) can help?