Bubbles in Tolex on LSS head

[ricardo loma vista]

I stored my LSS for about six months in a heated and air conditioned room. When I removed the cover on the LSS yesterday, I found a large bubble which was stuck to the inside of the Mesa cover. There are smaller bubbles also. I've never seen this happen to an amp's tolex . I've had the amp since 2005, but bought this head shell from Mesa about 8 years ago to make the amp easier to transport. Any idea what would cause this and what a fix might be?

 

[tbonesullivan]

What does the inside of the cover look like? Did anything spill on that area of the cabinet? That's really weird.

 

[ricardo loma vista]

Inside the the cover is clean, even where the bubble was stuck. No signs of any spills or leak on the amp or floor. No signs of leak from the ceiling.

 

[domct203]

That’s a very strange bubble in the tolex. I’ve never seen something like that happen from a properly stored amp. Is it getting bigger? Is that bubble hard or pliable? It looks like something softened the tolex and it’s adhesive allowing it to stretch into a bubble, like paint stripper on a painted surface.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that mentioned on this board, or on tolex/vinyl that’s properly installed.

Dom

 

[ricardo loma vista]

The bubble is soft and squishy. It is full of air and can't be completely flattened. Unfortunately, it's getting larger.

I called Mesa Boogie customer support and spoke to a tech. He said the problems with tolex generally make themselves known before they leave the factory, and he's only seen one amp in his 21 years come back after sale.

He couldn't diagnose it without seeing it, but said it could be a lot of hot/cold cycles, or just a problem in the glue. Without seeing it he said he couldnt say for sure, but thought it would probably require a complete strip and sanding, with all new tolex. He offered that Mesa could repair it (not something they are set up for) but that it would be pretty costly (probably more than the head shell originally cost) including shipping both ways.

I'm going to check with a local upholstery shop to see what they might be able to do.

 

[tbonesullivan]

I can also say that I've honestly never seen anything like that before. I googled and all the pictures I could find like that were a reaction to improper glue that decomposed the vinyl, which happened immediately. It was fine six months ago? So weird.

 

[rarebitusa]

The bubble is soft and squishy. It is full of air and can't be completely flattened. Unfortunately, it's getting larger.

I called Mesa Boogie customer support and spoke to a tech. He said the problems with tolex generally make themselves known before they leave the factory, and he's only seen one amp in his 21 years come back after sale.

He couldn't diagnose it without seeing it, but said it could be a lot of hot/cold cycles, or just a problem in the glue. Without seeing it he said he couldnt say for sure, but thought it would probably require a complete strip and sanding, with all new tolex. He offered that Mesa could repair it (not something they are set up for) but that it would be pretty costly (probably more than the head shell originally cost) including shipping both ways.

I'm going to check with a local upholstery shop to see what they might be able to do.

If I had to speculate it's the glue that has failed. It will probably spread if nothing is done. I'd probably take a chance on cross slicing it and reapplying contact adhesive. It wouldn't be perfect but better then what is there now.

A recover job is an involved task. I screwed up the first tolex job I did on this LSS shell using an incorrect glue, it failed with large bubbling

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Man, that sucks!
Mesa uses hide glue, which basically turns into snot when you try to remove it

I’ve only seen this when gas, nail polish remover, paint thinner has been spilled onto tolex
Usually, if this has happened, the vinyl outer fabric separates from the mesh inner fabric and the glue is still working

You could try this before stripping it down
Take the amp chassis out
Turn the head cab on its side so that the affected area is facing up
Poke a tiny hole in the center (diabetic needle, sewing needle)
Place a damp, not wet, dish towel over the affected area
Run a hot iron over the spot and the surrounding area
Place something heavy on the tolex after you remove the heat to hold it in place while it cools

This might work, and save you some cash
It might make the spot larger if the glue has failed

 

[Monsta-Tone]

If the tolex has separated, then rarebitusa's advice is probably the best route.
If you're careful, and don't get the glue on the outside of the tolex, you could probably make it look pretty presentable.
I usually place a little bit of weight on the area that I glue down just to hold it for a while

 

[rarebitusa]

Man, that sucks!
Mesa uses hide glue, which basically turns into snot when you try to remove it

I’ve only seen this when gas, nail polish remover, paint thinner has been spilled onto tolex
Usually, if this has happened, the vinyl outer fabric separates from the mesh inner fabric and the glue is still working

You could try this before stripping it down
Take the amp chassis out
Turn the head cab on its side so that the affected area is facing up
Poke a tiny hole in the center (diabetic needle, sewing needle)
Place a damp, not wet, dish towel over the affected area
Run a hot iron over the spot and the surrounding area
Place something heavy on the tolex after you remove the heat to hold it in place while it cools

This might work, and save you some cash
It might make the spot larger if the glue has failed

oh yea the hot iron to reform/reseat it... would definitely try that 1st. Its that vinyl tolex, not the leatherette so there's a much better chance of that working. Excellent idea.

 

[ricardo loma vista]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on this problem.

I took it to a vinyl repair guy who said he could probably make it presentable by cutting a slit in the bubble, forcing glue under the tolex, stretching the tolex out and cutting off the excess, and then heating and pressing the seam with a textured iron. But he thought that it would be better to strip the whole thing and recover it.

He was working out of an upholstery shop who said they could do a recovering, but that it looked "complicated." They declined to provide an estimate until I removed all the hardware and internals.

Rarebitusa: is the front panel of the LSS head shell screwed in or glued in? BTW, Nice job on the wine red tolex!

 

[rarebitusa]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on this problem.

Rarebitusa: is the front panel of the LSS head shell screwed in or glued in? BTW, Nice job on the wine red tolex!

Oh thanks... It's screwed in, they are located such that the screw heads blend in. I was able to recover an old 1x12 cab to match. I'm just a novice who botched the first tolex attempt badly but learned valuable lessons along the way. Redoing it is indeed alot of work, complicated I don't think so. Someone experienced should know how to approach it.

IMHO if it is "presentable" after the repair you'd be in good shape without spending alot.

 

[woodbutcher65]

Poke the bubble to let the air out, inject a little wood glue with a syringe, iron it down.