Boogies and the 4-cable method

[talltxguy]

Was talking to one of the Mesa techs about the 4-cable method. He mentioned that most of the Boogies don't seem to like the 4-cable method.

Do you find this to be true - whether you have a head, combo, or a rack preamp?

Could this be true because you're guitar signal is hitting digital before the tubes? Perhaps your guitar signal is going through AD/DA conversion twice in a 4-cable method?

Thanks for any input,
Scott

 

[hazbin]

Well my only experience is with my Axe FX and my mesa rig "Mark IV & Satellite" and yes the 4 cable method does not work very well with the high gain patches, massive HISS.

 

[JT_Marshmallow]

I connect my Boss GT-6 and Boogie Mark II-B via the 4cm and the tone is incredible.

 

[jpdennis]

I am using the 4CM with my .50 Caliber (cleaner undertone) and my Mark III (well, you know...). The FX modeler is the Line 6 M13. I am also using the HD 400 at the input jacks of the amps since I use them simultaneously as well as a Monster Power Pro 3500. No hum, no noise, just pure KA. Excellent tone and being able to use the pre/post FX features has been great. 8)

Dennis

 

[talltxguy]

Appreciate the replies so far.

We were arguing on the Digitech board whether or not your guitar signal goes through AD/DA conversion twice when using the 4-cable method. The techs at Digitech said no. Seems logical to me that it does not. What do you all think?

If DMTransmutation and jpdennis are getting great tone, then it seems unlikely that their signals are going through AD/DA conversion twice. And if their signals are going through twice, then it doesn't seem to matter?

Any Triaxis users like to chime in?

I would still like to hear from anybody with a Boogie though!

 

[ando]

Appreciate the replies so far.

We were arguing on the Digitech board whether or not your guitar signal goes through AD/DA conversion twice when using the 4-cable method. The techs at Digitech said no. Seems logical to me that it does not. What do you all think?

If DMTransmutation and jpdennis are getting great tone, then it seems unlikely that their signals are going through AD/DA conversion twice. And if their signals are going through twice, then it doesn't seem to matter?

Any Triaxis users like to chime in?

I would still like to hear from anybody with a Boogie though!

I have never used the 4 cable method, but I would think it is a certainty that your guitar signal goes through AD/DA conversion twice. All the effects are digital, right? So the pre-amp effects are the first AD/DA conversion happens before it hits your amp, then it happens again in the post-amp (loop) stage. Unless the effects board was analog, I don't see how it could not be converted twice. Maybe I'm missing something about this setup though...

 

[Danimal]

I've got a TriAxis and I run it 4 cable method with a Lexicon MPX G2. I've never noticed any problems with hiss or tone drop, though I admitedly don't use effects that often.

I agree with ando too, I don't see how it could NOT go through AD/DA twice.

 

[t0aj15]

I've tried the 4CM with my Mk IV and wasn't at all happy with the sound, but when I switched to a W/D/W setup using a 5CM setup it sounded incredible.

 

[cscotto]

I have tried the 4cm with my Nomad 100, Tremoverb, and Roadster. The piece I used was the M13. Every amp had problems with the 4cm. I never have problems with tone degradation. The tone is just fine. I have always had problems with ground loops producing hum and buzz. I also use RG-16s with all three amps, which essentially lets you run any effects you have in the 4cm. The amps all had ground loop issues. In each case, EBtech Hum eliminators and ISP decimators broke the loops. With the decimators in place, everything is quite, even on the highest gain channels. To make the 4cm work, you just have to know how to hunt down and cure ground loops.

 

[jpdennis]

... To make the 4cm work, you just have to know how to hunt down and cure ground loops.

+1

Same with using the stereo out of the M13 for two amps using the 4CM (would that make it a 7CM ? :shock: )

Dennis

 

[killerburst]

New R.I.P. (Rig in Progress) - GSP1101 / Mesa Mark 3++ 4CM

Guitar -> GSP1101 front panel input
GSP1101 amp loop send -> Mk3 input
Mk3 FX loop send -> GSP amp loop return
GSP output -> Mk3 FX loop return

Mesa head into THD 2x12 with WGS ET65s

FS300 is controlling a Payne Labs K-Switch which is controlling the switchable functions on the Mk3 (Lead, R1/R2 & EQ), all via MIDI CC #s thru GSP MIDI out. I have labeled the FS300 buttons accordingly since I took these pics.

Control 2 is changing patches and sending PC #s to K-Switch, plus controlling GSP FX on/off states on the fly.

Basic bank setup example:
Program 1 = Mesa R1 clean sound with reverb, GSP set to external amp loop, GSP providing chorus/delay/reverb on patch startup, plus add TS-808 model on demand, wah on demand, volume control, tuner and tap tempo all on Control 2. FS300 switching to R2, lead and/or EQ on the fly.

Program 2 = Mesa R2 dirty sound with Mesa GEQ, GSP set to external amp loop, GSP providing subtle reverb on patch startup, plus add DOD 250 model on demand, delay on demand, phaser on demand, wah on demand, volume control, tuner and tap tempo all on Control 2. FS300 switching to R1, lead and/or EQ on the fly.

Program 3 = Mesa lead sound, GSP set to external amp loop, GSP providing subtle delay and reverb on patch startup, delay on demand, pitch shift on demand, wah on demand, volume control, tuner and tap tempo all on Control 2. FS300 switching to R1, R2 (added to lead thickens lead sound) and/or EQ on the fly.

Program 4 = Mesa used for power amp only, GSP set to internal amp, GSP providing Marshall '68 Jump Panel model, subtle reverb on patch startup, plus add Boss SD-1 model on demand, delay on demand, phaser on demand, wah on demand, volume control, tuner and tap tempo all on Control 2. FS300 switching to add Mesa Graphic EQ on the fly.

Program 5 = Mesa used for power amp only, GSP set to internal amp, GSP providing Marshall '68 Jump Panel model, SD-1 overdrive, delay and reverb on patch startup, plus add phaser on demand, wah on demand, volume control, tuner and tap tempo all on Control 2. FS300 switching to add Mesa Graphic EQ on the fly.

Also, I use a Boss FV-500L (not pictured) in the expression pedal jack on the Control 2 to control delay levels, univibe speed, etc. on a per patch basis.

Alternate setups:
* GSP1101 alone, DI into PA
* GSP1101 into Carvin TS100 stereo tube power amp into THD 2x12, mic'd or DI'd (or both) - cab sims on DI, no cab sims to power amp/speakers
* Mesa into THD 2x12, no FX, peelin' paint

 

[Danimal]

Looks pretty sweet. How are you liking the effects on the GSP1101? I'm taking it there's no tone problems running 4CM with the Digitech, I'd read that it can be a problem.

 

[killerburst]

The effects are adequate, but not extraordinary. The overall sum works really well. A little noisy at high gain settings, but so is the amp by itself.

 

[talltxguy]

I had sold my Studio Pre, realized how foolish that was, and picked up another one recently. I hooked it up straight into the 295 & jammed for a while, getting a feel for the tone & dynamics. Then I ran it through the 1101 using the 4-cable method & was impressed with things.

The stomp boxes worked well when the Studio Pre was on its clean setting. And the stomps worked nicely with the lead setting as well.

I don't overdo my effects. I just use a subtle amount of this or that, and don't have any problems with noise. The Digitech is like a Mesa though in that it does seem to take a bit of time to dial in your tone.