Badlander el34s vs 6L6 smackdown

[djw]

Glad to see some BAD love here. I have a 25 combo and I absolutely love it, but I am jonesing for a 50... though I don't really *need* one more amp, especially since I have an Electra-Dyne and numerous other Boogs. I've done 6L6/EL34 swaps over the years in my ED and my Lone Star, and yes noticeable but overall pretty subtle differences in those examples. Sounds like the difference here might be more pronounced, which is intriguing.

Anyway, I'm a Badlander fan. Seems like a sleeper of an amp, I hope it sticks around a little longer.

 

[rarebitusa]

Glad to see some BAD love here. I have a 25 combo and I absolutely love it, but I am jonesing for a 50... though I don't really *need* one more amp, especially since I have an Electra-Dyne and numerous other Boogs. I've done 6L6/EL34 swaps over the years in my ED and my Lone Star, and yes noticeable but overall pretty subtle differences in those examples. Sounds like the difference here might be more pronounced, which is intriguing.

Anyway, I'm a Badlander fan. Seems like a sleeper of an amp, I hope it sticks around a little longer.

Hey Damon welcome back it's been a while. FWIW I found many of your past Lonestar posts really helpful as I was getting into my LSS.

But yea digging the Badlander 50 big time. For me I'm finding the various combinations of el34/6l6/triode/pentode/variac really provide some useful tone differences. It's been loads of fun.

Curious are you using the CabcloneIR much or going with the live speaker?

 

[Doug Doppler]

Hey guys and gals. Jumping in after reading back a few, but not all of the posts. I LOVED my BAD 50 Combo I bought a second one, and then at @rarebitusa know, I also picked up a BAD 25 head. @spawnofthesith2 I've got two GEQs that I'm running in the loop to 'Mark-ify' my combos and it may be the thing you're looking for. They're a bit of a chase to acquire but well worth it

 

[djw]

Hey Damon welcome back it's been a while. FWIW I found many of your past Lonestar posts really helpful as I was getting into my LSS.

But yea digging the Badlander 50 big time. For me I'm finding the various combinations of el34/6l6/triode/pentode/variac really provide some useful tone differences. It's been loads of fun.

Curious are you using the CabcloneIR much or going with the live speaker?

Right on! Thanks, it's been a bit. Glad I was able to be of service.

Re: Cabclone, I actually took my BAD25 on the road this summer and used the cabclone/IR feature a LOT. We were using IEMs and had our mix kinda dialed in, so it was helpful there as a set/forget part of our setup. I thought it sounded great, and it seemed to really help overall with keeping stage volume under control. More recently around town, in some other bands I play with, I've offered it as an option to whoever was running the house and some of them have taken me up on it. Generally we've been really happy with it. I don't get the hate that I've seen for that feature in some forums.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Hey guys and gals. Jumping in after reading back a few, but not all of the posts. I LOVED my BAD 50 Combo I bought a second one, and then at @rarebitusa know, I also picked up a BAD 25 head. @spawnofthesith2 I've got two GEQs that I'm running in the loop to 'Mark-ify' my combos and it may be the thing you're looking for. They're a bit of a chase to acquire but well worth it

Yeah been keeping my eyes peeled for one of those, I use an HX stomp as part of my board for FX and it has a Mesa GEQ model on there that’s amazing with my non-EQ purple stripe III, but when I tried it with the badlander I just got even more confused on where to go with settings

Might bring the BL to practice next week, but I’m not gonna lie, that III has been kicking ass and taking names the last couple weeks

Always like to mix things up though haha

 

[spawnofthesith2]

bro it's gear right??? That gives you free reign LOL

FWIW the BAD hasn't made me forget my Marks either. It's a different beast for sure. For my live situation it just sits perfectly in the band mix, best with the el34s. At the studio I am drawn to the V:90.

Yeah definitely looking forward to taking it for a spin live. This time off from shows has been killing me. Have a growing queue of amps that need to get stage tested

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Sorry to triple post but actually have been playing the BAD non stop since I got home from practice. It’s late and granted I’m playing at -very- low volumes (however with the -20dB attenuator on my captor) and definitely vibing with it a lot harder than last night. One big difference… switching up guitars. For the past several months I’ve been heavily favoring my PRS ce24 (which is a semi hollow bolt on) but tonight switched to my custom 22… I think I’m liking a more “girthier” guitar with this amp. I’m looking forward to cranking up more the rest of the weekend using this guitar. At the moment though my manic “omg I need to trade this amp” thoughts have been assuaged

 

[DECEMBER]

My Badlander 50W head just arrived. I'll probably do some tube comparisons to put on SoundCloud. I have 6L6GC STR440, 441, and 445 to try in it.
Got a G12M-65 Creamback because that's what's in the combo, and I started breaking it in with my Mark V 90W yesterday and I already like it way better than the V30s. It mixes well with a MC-90 Black Shadow. I'll probably sell the V30s and get another G12M and do 2xMC-90 + 2xG12M for the stereo wet/dry/wet rig.
Problem is, the G12M doesn't fit the mounting holes in the baffle in the Johnson V30 cab! The diameter of the mounting hole spacing on the speaker is smaller, so I can only get two screws in. But it fits in the 2x12 Line 6 combo, so I'm hoping the MC-90s will fit in the Johnson cab.

 

[Freddy Cash]

I got a Badlander 100 watt rackmount on first release. It arrived the day we was finishing up the rhythm tracks with the rev f dual. The Badlander made it on all the solos tho. I don’t get all the hate it gets. It’s a tight amp. To me it’s voiced in between a rectifier and Marshall type sound. I play in a death metal band and it has enough gain for that. I never really needed a boost in front of the amp when I used it live which to me was good to have less stuff to drag around. I still haven’t used the cabclone stuff on it. I have been wanting to try 6l6 in it tho to see what it does. I have no complaints on the amp tho.

 

[DECEMBER]

I have been wanting to try 6l6 in it tho to see what it does.

I'll have to edit the clips together and post it on SC, but my initial observations of the Badlander 50W with different power tubes:
-EL34 STR447 grey (stock): darkest of them all, but seemingly thicker in the lows/low-mids. It may just be the reduced high end that makes it appear thicker.
-6L6GC STR441 yellow: closest to EL34 of the 3 6L6 types, with more high end.
-6L6GC STR440 green: the harshest of the 3 6L6 types.
-6L6GC STR445 green: most clear, defined, and punchy.

I'm torn between the EL34 and 6L6 445... I'll have to try them in a mix next to see what works better there. I like the sound of the 445 best, but I've found that more high end doesn't always do well in a busy mix, the harshness can become more pronounced.
I also made IRs of a G12M-65 Creamback, EL34 and 6L6 445 versions, with each of an SM57, Sennheiser e609, Lewitt LCT440, AKG C1000S, MXL990, and Sterling Audio ST151.
I didn't have time to try them out or compare them to the built-in CabClone IRs, so that's what I'll be doing today. If anyone is interested in trying some IRs, let me know.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Hey guys and gals. Jumping in after reading back a few, but not all of the posts. I LOVED my BAD 50 Combo I bought a second one, and then at @rarebitusa know, I also picked up a BAD 25 head. @spawnofthesith2 I've got two GEQs that I'm running in the loop to 'Mark-ify' my combos and it may be the thing you're looking for. They're a bit of a chase to acquire but well worth it

Circling back on this I decided to spend a little time during my lunchbreak today with the HX stomp mesa GEQ in the loop. After some tweaking on the BL knobs I'm definitely liking this a lot, completely different settings than what I would dial without it (obviously I guess lol)... presence/bass/treble all around 6, mids almost dimed, gain dimed (crush mode). Sounds pretty epic. Definitely does bring it a bit closer to familiar mark territory with the GEQ curve, but still retains the character and particular aggression of the BAD. Cranking the heck out of the mids on the amp and then cutting the 750hz in the loop seems to strike a nice balance


EDIT: already have completely walked this back lol. Spent some time with my ear down to the speaker and I’m pretty much back tk my previous settings no GEQ. Really I just need to get this amp back in the band room and stop agonizing over the settings on my apartment of one of the most simple Mesa amps ever

 

[rarebitusa]

I'll have to edit the clips together and post it on SC, but my initial observations of the Badlander 50W with different power tubes:
-EL34 STR447 grey (stock): darkest of them all, but seemingly thicker in the lows/low-mids. It may just be the reduced high end that makes it appear thicker.
-6L6GC STR441 yellow: closest to EL34 of the 3 6L6 types, with more high end.
-6L6GC STR440 green: the harshest of the 3 6L6 types.
-6L6GC STR445 green: most clear, defined, and punchy.

I'm torn between the EL34 and 6L6 445... I'll have to try them in a mix next to see what works better there. I like the sound of the 445 best, but I've found that more high end doesn't always do well in a busy mix, the harshness can become more pronounced.

Poking this thread again. After going back and forth between el34s and 6L6s months ago, decided at that time to go with el34s STR447 GRNs. The focus turned to other stuff ie: power Triode/Pentode, Varic vs Bold, sig chain, speakers, pickups, etc. Gave myself time to tweak it in for live use. The el34s are fine, but they are... well el34s . But after our last recorded rehearsal I went back and did comparisons with previous ones with the V:90... hmmm now have swapped back to 6L6s for the time being. Maybe it's the fact other things are dialed in now and I know the amp better... but these 6L6s sound really good. Better overall clarity, especially with cleans and improved dynamic response to the touch under higher gain. They do give the amp a different vibe for sure.

Now currently running an old set of STR440s GRNs, cause that's what I had lying around. I do have newer STR448s and STR441s in other amps that I can pull and probably will try when motivated.

But I will say the BAD is most excellent, I'm not a big tube sniffer but how this amp responds to el34s vs 6L6s is a distinct choice and worthwhile to explore. Unlike the V:90 where IMHO the difference was kinda meh, this amp is sweet with either and it's very cool to hear... I can understand why one would be "torn" making a choice.

 

[Doug Doppler]

Poking this thread again. After going back and forth between el34s and 6L6s months ago, decided at that time to go with el34s STR447 GRNs. The focus turned to other stuff ie: power Triode/Pentode, Varic vs Bold, sig chain, speakers, pickups, etc. Gave myself time to tweak it in for live use. The el34s are fine, but they are... well el34s . But after our last recorded rehearsal I went back and did comparisons with previous ones with the V:90... hmmm now have swapped back to 6L6s for the time being. Maybe it's the fact other things are dialed in now and I know the amp better... but these 6L6s sound really good. Better overall clarity, especially with cleans and improved dynamic response to the touch under higher gain. They do give the amp a different vibe for sure.

Now currently running an old set of STR440s GRNs, cause that's what I had lying around. I do have newer STR448s and STR441s in other amps that I can pull and probably will try when motivated.

But I will say the BAD is most excellent, I'm not a big tube sniffer but how this amp responds to el34s vs 6L6s is a distinct choice and worthwhile to explore. Unlike the V:90 where IMHO the difference was kinda meh, this amp is sweet with either and it's very cool to hear... I can understand why one would be "torn" making a choice.

...but there clearly is a 'bit' of tube sniffing going on here. I would using the CCIR out and document the same settings (even though we would change to fit the tubes, at least a bit) and see where and why you like what you do. And YES, BAD is GOOD!

 

[rarebitusa]

...but there clearly is a 'bit' of tube sniffing going on here. I would using the CCIR out and document the same settings (even though we would change to fit the tubes, at least a bit) and see where and why you like what you do. And YES, BAD is GOOD!

Oh it is indeed. excellent suggestion.. best to be systematic which in my excitement that usually goes by the wayside.

FWIW, for the first time I ran a live cab and also the DI out to a powered PA speaker. Was trying to get a feel for the whole FOH thing. This was most excellent. I'm going to assume that even when running a cab, the DI out is using an IR. I didn't try changing the IRs to confirm. But... the live cab was a WB 1x12 MC-90 and the IR was a

7. 1X12 LONE STAR 23 - Celestion C90 – MESA Proprietary – 8 ohm

and dang if they didn't sound identical.

 

[Doug Doppler]

Oh it is indeed. excellent suggestion.. best to be systematic which in my excitement that usually goes by the wayside.

FWIW, for the first time I ran a live cab and also the DI out to a powered PA speaker. Was trying to get a feel for the whole FOH thing. This was most excellent. I'm going to assume that even when running a cab, the DI out is using an IR. I didn't try changing the IRs to confirm. But... the live cab was a WB 1x12 MC-90 and the IR was a

7. 1X12 LONE STAR 23 - Celestion C90 – MESA Proprietary – 8 ohm

and dang if they didn't sound identical.

and as noted in the 'sounded identical bit' and as you in rethinking it of course know, CabClone IR is always active when using that out. And YES, CabClone IR, be it internal or external AND the included IRs are AWESOME. I'd say have fun my friend, but clearly, you already are