Back to the big daddy Mark V

[dlpasco]

After a lot of discussion with Mister Smitty and some tonal exploration on my own, I decided that it was time to get the Mark V another shot.

After talking with the amazing folks at The Guitar Store in Seattle I flipped one of my vintage guitars and got a 90 watt Mark V combo. As an extra bonus, RANDALL SMITH HIMSELF was visiting the store yesterday afternoon and signed the cabinet for me (swoon). It was awesome to just hang out and listen to him for awhile, he's a brilliant man.

This is the second Mark V I've owned, and this time, it feels right. But I've learned a lot in the meanwhile as well.

At this point I've owned my Mark III, a Mark V head, a Mark V:25 head, and a JP-2C. I've seen a lot of what these amps have in common and some of the things that they do differently.

The big body combo sounds great. Not boxy at all, especially on the floor.

I've disabled the fx loop, and took off the casters. If I'm playing a gig I may keep the casters on just long enough to get it on the stage and stow them in the back while I'm playing.

I can likewise see using the fx loop for playing live if I need reverb or delay, but for recording any dry work I think it's going to stay off.

With the fx loop inactive, on the floor, this amp sounds as vicious and brutal to me as my Mark III. Certainly enough for me.

Like Smitty, I prefer triode mode for lead playing on the V. Pentode mode with Mark IV mode engaged is great for nailing Ola's tone in his Mark V demo.

Based on my experiences with the JP-2C, I'm sticking with Clean mode on Channel 1, not Fat. And it sounds great to me.

I'm not ditching the JP-2C, either. But I've learned enough in using it to appreciate what the V has to offer me now.

 

[dlpasco]

I am completely floored with how radically different my experience with the Mark V is this time around.

I've got a clean sound dialed in on Channel 1 that I like as much as what I have on the JP-2C.
I've got a crunch sound (!) dialed in on Channel 2 that is much better than anything I came up with on R2 on my Mark III.
IIC+ mode and IV mode on Channel 3 are distinct and both are wildly useful. IIC+ mode in triode is close enough to what I get out of my JP-2C for my tastes. I'm not feeling like I'm missing out. It's a GREAT lead experience. IV mode in pentode is percussive and authoritative. I can nail Ola's tone in his epic Mark V video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0XxPKrt5i-M without any problems - that's a first for me on any amp.

Let me rephrase that in terms of gear:

Channel 1: as good as the JP-2c to me.
Channel 2: best crunch sound of any of my amps. Period. https://soundcloud.com/dlpasco/the-wait-intro
Channel 3: IIC+ mode: well on par with my JP-2C and my Mark III. IV mode: god like.

 

[dlpasco]

I'm trying to understand what could be so different this time around, and here's what I've got:

1. Putting the cabinet directly on the floor really does make a huge difference*
2. I'm disabling the fx loop. No tone suck.
3. I've owned a JP-2C. I think that the clean channel on the JP-2C is very distinct and easy to find. Once I had that sound in my head and knew I *really* liked it, I was able to go back to the Mark V and come up with something that sounded as good to me.

*Near as I can tell, the 4x12 Ola is playing in the video I linked to is not on casters. Also, I had my combo sitting on top of a 2x12 today that WASN'T connected to the amp and immediately noticed that the V was sounded anemic. I plugged the combo speaker and the 2x12 into the combo's 4 ohm jacks and it immediately sounded brawny and badass once again.

----

I spent a lot of time with my old Mark V struggling with a weak gain structure and ice picky tone when I was trying to dial it in using 6L6 tubes (EL34s didn't have that problem but the cleans were terrible). Channel 2 had been USELESS to me before without EL34s.

Now everything just works, and sounds amazing, with 6L6s. I'm stunned.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

Welcome back, DLP. I always wonder when I read guys who had a V and didn't like it. I have one now, and I agree with almost everything you said above. It is just a phenomenal amp! I have the head, and the 2x vertical recto cab and I couldn't be happier. Guys complain about it having too many knobs and switches... I find something to like about every one of them! Only difference, I always leave the loop on. I wasn't blown away my first night with the amp and found I had that off. Turned it on the next night and have never again turned it off.

I played my Mini Recto (into 2xvert) tonight and just LOVED IT. Sounded great. Played the V25 last night into the same cab and loved it as well. Played my PRS Custom 50 the night before and it sounded great!

But the Mark V is the one amp that I can say almost anyone could have and never want for more. It seems to be able to do anything and do it extremely well!

Oh, and you didn't even mention the Mark I channel, which is INCREDIBLE! Totally different than anything else in the amp, and just off the hook cool.

Enjoy the amp!

 

[SamuelJ86]

I'm trying to understand what could be so different this time around,

I think ones attitude can play a big role this kinda thing. The excitement of a new toy, and you know what to expect. And it's a great amp, so that doesn't hurt. Also, I see a lot of guys on here that didn't jive with the V the first time around, sell it and then buy another one. Who knows, give it a few weeks to explore it all over again. The V just has so many tones and feels, great amp. Sometimes though, you can have the opposite attitude; you can play a new amp telling yourself you're not going to like it. I think maybe some of the c+ guys might be a little scared of the JP2C, not wanting to like it, not wanting it to sound anything like the real deal. I'll admit I was a little intimidated when the mark V 25 came out. I had the big V and I thought now guys can join the club for half the price and my amps value was going to drop. So I wanted it to suck, lol. I got over it. That was just my first instinct really. But I guess when you talk about how good the V is, hype it up and everthing, buy it, that usually gives you a positive attitude towards the amp. I'm going to put my V up for sale soon. It's time to say goodbye. I really thought it was going to be with me the rest of my life I still love it, and I gave it a fair chance against the JP2C. But the JP2C just sounds and feels so much better. Every kind of tone I like on the V, I get it better on the JP2C. I just don't need both of them. I'll let someone else enjoy my beloved V.

I will say it's a lot of fun comparing the V to the JP2C. I've already spent many hours going back and fourth between them. Going over all the details in tone and feel. They can be similar, but they are two very different Mark amps. Both are wonderful in their own right.

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

I don't use castors on my combo. And yes, I completely agree that amp needs to be on the floor. However I really don't like the C90 speaker at all. I've a few Marshall cabs. I much prefer my 2x12 with greybacks for the combo. I've a 4x12 with original g12-65's that work well to soften the attack in the mids of the MarkV. But find the bass response of the 2x12 to be superior. I attribute that to the 2x12 not even having feet. It's just vinyl meeting the floor.

As for the MarkV I love it more every time I switch it on. It's my first Mesa amp. I'm finding myself increasingly favouring it. At the moment I'm between bands and spending a lot of time jamming with other musos and bands. It's an absolute crutch in those situations and absolutely supports me. You know, I bought the thing for it's versatility. It's clean channel sold it to me. I didn't even know what a 2C+ was until after I bought the amp. I've specific amps for specific jobs. A JMP2203 for rock/blues. A 2203KK that I've extensively messed about with for metal. An 18watt self build that I've torn down and rebuilt more times than I can remember. And a 58Watkins than I insist on for recorded clean sounds. I had a JVM but gave it away to a mate to help pay his legal bills.
The only amp my Mesa doesn't do as good a job as is the 2203kk. Mainly because of the mods I've done to it. It's got a bigger bass end than a dual rec. It covers every other sound I want equally as well, despite differences. I think a lot of the Mark V's charm is the Jack of all trades thing. I couldn't say it's master of non. All of it's sounds are authentic.

 

[APEMAN]

-

 

[dlpasco]

Welcome back! This time PLEASE try the EH 12ax7s and a GZ34 Rectifier tube for 10W setting... To me, this amp is absolutely on fire!

The fx loop sounds almost perfect as well, the trouble with it being a sound/mojo killer comes with the dual master output/ solo level.

Having the solo off kills the mojo... I leave mine all the time on and the amp breathes fire( - and you can use the good sounding fx loop)!

Holy crap. I will try the solo suggestion immediately. Thank you.

 

[dlpasco]

*comes running back in the room*

THAT definitely got my attention. I don't know how it compares to having the loop off, but it sounds really, really good with the solo engaged.

Could just be my imagination, but I have to go into a meeting right now.

More on this later. It's exciting! Thank you.

 

[Jeronimo]

Channel 2: best crunch sound of any of my amps. Period. https://soundcloud.com/dlpasco/the-wait-intro

What settings do you use dit Crunch?

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

Apeman please be careful using the GZ34 and EL34's.
Mesa advised me that when using EL34's, I should only use the amp in Variac power mode. I didn't get a complete reason why. However I measured the plate voltage and grid bias in full power mode. EL34 bias is a fair bit hotter than 6L6. From memory the class A pair were biased at 95% and the class A/B at 77%. With a plate voltage of 450v from the diode rectifier
The maximum supply of plate voltage from a 5U4 is 420V. A GZ34 will put out 465V. Just over 10% more than the 5u4. I don't have the knowledge the theorise what effect that will have on the grid bias.

 

[dlpasco]

Channel 2: best crunch sound of any of my amps. Period. https://soundcloud.com/dlpasco/the-wait-intro

What settings do you use dit Crunch?

I actually decided to dial it in like I would on my Mark III:

Gain: dimed
Treble: dimed
Presence: dimed
Mid: dimed
Bass: 10 o'clock
Master to taste

Mark V Crunch Settings by Daniel Pasco, on Flickr

EQ: Traditional V.

I got into the habit of cranking the mids and then dropping the 750 slider so that it's centered on the bottom line. They don't totally cancel each other out and it keeps the scoop from totally wiping out the guitar's mid tones.

 

[dlpasco]

Apeman please be careful using the GZ34 and EL34's.
Mesa advised me that when using EL34's, I should only use the amp in Variac power mode. I didn't get a complete reason why. However I measured the plate voltage and grid bias in full power mode. EL34 bias is a fair bit hotter than 6L6. From memory the class A pair were biased at 95% and the class A/B at 77%. With a plate voltage of 450v from the diode rectifier
The maximum supply of plate voltage from a 5U4 is 420V. A GZ34 will put out 465V. Just over 10% more than the 5u4. I don't have the knowledge the theorise what effect that will have on the grid bias.

I'm actually very thrilled with 6L6s. Which is also amazing and a complete turn around from my previous Mark V experiences.

It feels like, some how, I stumbled on something that showcases this amp as it was actually intended, and it's a complete badass.

 

[dlpasco]

On some level, I'd like to see if I could make this amp sound as bad as my old one did, just so that I can categorically state what has changed here.

On the other hand, I emphatically do NOT want to go back to that ice-picky, useless channel 2, anemic channel 3, nasty channel 1 life I had before.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

I thought solo was just a second master... meaning it's no different than turning up the regular master. If what I read was correctly it is nothing but a second master where when you kick the solo on, it bypasses Master and goes to Solo instead, so unless Solo is set louder than Master it won't even make any difference.

If this is incorrect, please let me know. I know a guy was claiming a similar thing with his PRS amp, going on and on about how much better it sounded with the solo on. How it just opened the amp up and the amp became alive, etc. PRS Tech support said that it shouldn't sound any different at all, just louder if you have the solo knobs turned up past where the regular master is because all the switch does is bypass master and go to the solo knob instead. They said it would sound exactly the same if he just turned the regular master up some. When I checked on my PRS amp, that was 100% true. It DID make the amp sound fuller, but only because it was louder.

I thought I read here are at TGP, that the Mark V solo was the same. That there were no additional gain stages or anything, (which there ARE with the loop). And, again, after turning the loop on, I've never turned it off because it sounded better on. But now I really know my way around the amp so maybe I should check this again... crap, if it sounds even better you might never hear from me again. I'll be holed up in the music room and be a hermit or something.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

p.s. Wow! Those crunch settings are... well, maybe I'll try them tonight. You said it was ice pick before and you have P and T cranked now and it's not? That's a lot of treble! LOL (I'm playing through V30s though, but Mesa version which are the best/least ice picky!).

I've toyed with Crunch with EQ not on, Gain 1:00, P- 10:00, T-1:00, M-10:00, B-11:00 No EQ, 45 watt or same as those but mids at 2:00. (going for the upper mid heavy M -ish tones).

 

[dlpasco]

I thought solo was just a second master... meaning it's no different than turning up the regular master. If what I read was correctly it is nothing but a second master where when you kick the solo on, it bypasses Master and goes to Solo instead, so unless Solo is set louder than Master it won't even make any difference.

If this is incorrect, please let me know. I know a guy was claiming a similar thing with his PRS amp, going on and on about how much better it sounded with the solo on. How it just opened the amp up and the amp became alive, etc. PRS Tech support said that it shouldn't sound any different at all, just louder if you have the solo knobs turned up past where the regular master is because all the switch does is bypass master and go to the solo knob instead. They said it would sound exactly the same if he just turned the regular master up some. When I checked on my PRS amp, that was 100% true. It DID make the amp sound fuller, but only because it was louder.

I thought I read here are at TGP, that the Mark V solo was the same. That there were no additional gain stages or anything, (which there ARE with the loop). And, again, after turning the loop on, I've never turned it off because it sounded better on. But now I really know my way around the amp so maybe I should check this again... crap, if it sounds even better you might never hear from me again. I'll be holed up in the music room and be a hermit or something.

I turned the output and solo all the way down, then activated the solo button and dialed in the solo level to what I wanted to hear.

This effectively turns the solo button into a mute if you turn it back off again.

I played around and the solo volume level kicks up MUCH faster than the regular output control. I think this may be the way to go (I never use a solo boost anyway)

 

[dlpasco]

p.s. Wow! Those crunch settings are... well, maybe I'll try them tonight. You said it was ice pick before and you have P and T cranked now and it's not? That's a lot of treble! LOL (I'm playing through V30s though, but Mesa version which are the best/least ice picky!).

I've toyed with Crunch with EQ not on, Gain 1:00, P- 10:00, T-1:00, M-10:00, B-11:00 No EQ, 45 watt or same as those but mids at 2:00. (going for the upper mid heavy M -ish tones).

I know. I don't know why the heck this is working for me now when it didn't before. This looks like it should be icepick city.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

I thought solo was just a second master... meaning it's no different than turning up the regular master. If what I read was correctly it is nothing but a second master where when you kick the solo on, it bypasses Master and goes to Solo instead, so unless Solo is set louder than Master it won't even make any difference.

If this is incorrect, please let me know. I know a guy was claiming a similar thing with his PRS amp, going on and on about how much better it sounded with the solo on. How it just opened the amp up and the amp became alive, etc. PRS Tech support said that it shouldn't sound any different at all, just louder if you have the solo knobs turned up past where the regular master is because all the switch does is bypass master and go to the solo knob instead. They said it would sound exactly the same if he just turned the regular master up some. When I checked on my PRS amp, that was 100% true. It DID make the amp sound fuller, but only because it was louder.

I thought I read here are at TGP, that the Mark V solo was the same. That there were no additional gain stages or anything, (which there ARE with the loop). And, again, after turning the loop on, I've never turned it off because it sounded better on. But now I really know my way around the amp so maybe I should check this again... crap, if it sounds even better you might never hear from me again. I'll be holed up in the music room and be a hermit or something.

I turned the output and solo all the way down, then activated the solo button and dialed in the solo level to what I wanted to hear.

This effectively turns the solo button into a mute if you turn it back off again.

I played around and the solo volume level kicks up MUCH faster than the regular output control. I think this may be the way to go (I never use a solo boost anyway)

IF what I heard was true, it could just be either a different volume pot value, or simply tolerance variances in one and the other. Almost sure there is no additional gain staging it's just swapping one volume control for the other. That said, the regular master doesn't work unless the loop is switched in so maybe those two are somehow interrelated.

 

[dlpasco]

In the interests of science I tried some quick A/Bing.

If I'm just plugged into the combo with the fx loop engaged and using the regular output control to monitor volume, I'm pretty much back to the anemic, dead sounding Mark V that I gave up last year.

Floor coupling

Right now I've got my Mark V combo sitting on top of a 2x12 rectifier cabinet. The cabinet is not on wheels.

Plugging into the 2x12 recto and the combo makes a HUGE difference in tone. I believe this is due to floor coupling and not JUST the fact that I've got a bass-heavy closed back speaker added into the mix because I noticed the same qualities just using the combo amp when it was on the floor downstairs.

So I'm never, ever going to use this amp on wheels or off of the floor without plugging into a cabinet that is on floor already.

fx loop
Disabling the fx loop or using the solo function to dial in the desired playing volume both work very well. I can't tell for sure if they sound identical or not, but using the regular volume

Either way, there's definite additional umph that comes into play either way. Mark IIC+ sounds like the real deal to me. Can't stop playing Metallica once I've got the amp set up this way. Mark IV with pentode sounds like a thunderclap. Totally amazing.

So, if you are suffering from shitty Mark V tone, try a) putting the speaker on the floor and b) disabling the fx loop or using the solo knob to dial in your regular guitar volume.

This amp is now at the top of the heap for me, hands down. I love it.