Back to Boogie MKIV or a 5:50 Express

[Fronzil]

Man this machine is awesome tone-wise but no matter what tweak I do, it seems that I'm only getting different tones of the songs from those Metallica's old albums.

May I suggest it's your guitar? What are you playing?

I agree, the guitar means everything with the IV..with the right guitar, you can get any sound of out this amp, BUT I didn't know you don't like using pedals, it's a must for any amp IMO (even if its just 1 overdrive)...I run a BB preamp and Diamond J drive, with 2 analog delays in the loop...pretty simple pedal board compared to most, but I can get any sound I need...oh btw, I've covered Zeppelin live with 2 bands before...always had great reception on my rhythm and lead tone...you really need a chance to crank the amp, and tweak with the aid of an overdrive/clean boost.

anyway, my point being, mesa mark series does not = only metallica and petrucci tones...neither of them even come close to getting every sound out of that amp on their albums

 

[CudBucket]

How can one get a tone different from what those professional musicians got?

Easy. By using your ears instead of your eyes when turning the knobs on the amp. Too often, people start with what are "common" settings. That's a great way to go where people have gone before. You'd be surprised what happens when you turn all the knobs to zero and start from there. While I urge everyone to read the Mark IV manual, you don't have to do it that way. Just turn the knobs and listen. Who cares if it sounds good on zero or 10. If it sounds good, it is good.

Plus, with an OD pedal on R2, the amp can certainly do a classic rock thing. But sure, if you know there is an amp that sounds more like what you hear in your head, that's the amp you should own. One thing that puzzles me is when people get a Mark and then ask: "Can I make it sound like a Marshall?"

 

[MBJunkie]

I agree with many posters comments on this thread......especially the response from CudBucket.

I'd like to add to CudBucket's comment.....not only does "using your ears" apply to the MkIV, but also to the Express 5:50, DC-5, LSC, LSS, RK (all of which I used to own) and the MkV, ED (both of which I currently own along with my MkIV widebody), but also to all other amp manufacturer's. It all boils down to what sounds good to your ear while playing your guitar, effects, amp, etc...

Now to provide my answer to the original poster's question (MkIV or 5:50 Express)?
While the 5:50 Express is a good amp and capable of great sounds in all modes (clean, crunch, blues and burn)...it didn't offer the footswitchable flexibility that I require for a good clean, crunch and high gain lead sound for rehearsals and live performance. For that matter, I didn't like it's limited flexibility to switch between these sounds while practicing at home using this amp. However, it is easy to dial in great sounds in all modes and may be a great choice for you do not consider this a limitation for your needs. Personally, the Express 5:50 would probably still be in my possession if it offered the clean, crunch and burn modes as 3 separate footswitchable channels, but it doesn't nor will it in the future.

The MkIV is a 3 channel amp (with mid and bass tone controls shared in channel 1 and 2) that offers greater flexibility than the Express 5:50, but does require more time to familiarize yourself with the tonal possiblities of the amp because of its many extra features. This can be frustrating to some, but for those that are willing to spend time dialing in the 3 channels offered on the MkIV using your guitar and ears.......most are rewarded with the time spent.

I used to own an Express 5:50 combo, but traded it in about a year ago to help fund the purchase my MkV combo. I do not regret this at all. I also currently own an Electradyne 1x12 combo which is also a great amp. I still own my MkIV Widebody Combo that I purchased in '96, and will problably own it for life. Not because I can't achieve similar if not better sounds out of my MkV.....more because the MkIV is an excellent amp in its own right.

I use my MkV as my #1 for rehearsals/gigs because it provides me with everything I am after in an amp......my number 2 is the MkIV and ED is #3.

However, I will say that you should try an ED because it offers 3 great footswitchable sounds (clean, crunch and high gain lead) with minimal effort to dial in. The tradeoff to me is that the ED doesn't offer the flexibility that I am after for live playing.........many others consider it their #1.

I hope this helps.

 

[giorikas81]

Just my 2c as a recently [proud] IV owner!

List what you like to play. If Metallica (and other bands with similar tone) are not at the top of the list, you may get disappointed by Mark IV and this is not good

Man this machine is awesome tone-wise but no matter what tweak I do, it seems that I'm only getting different tones of the songs from those Metallica's old albums.

For me, this is not a problem since I was looking for an amp to get that tone and options were limited to pretty much DC and Mark. I wouldn't be happy with a F or Express. So yeh I'm happy but you may not!

Simply: Mesa Mark = Metallica

you can get blues sounds from rhythm 2 and lead as well..both very easy...

Well it's possible but again bluesy sounds of some Metallica song! Maybe I'm obsessed with Metallica but please try Mark IV before making a decision.

Hey!!! I am also obsessed with metallica *who isn't! even petrucci doesn't hide and he is the mesa prophet of our times!!!.

I find though that you do not have to limit yourself to a mark though. I have the studio pre and even direct it almost nails the justice or MOP tone "close enough" no sweat and wait if you use impulses or power amp sims!!! Triaxis is almost the same thing but I kept the studio.

But f-series? Metallica no problem though not the original sound. It kinda goes this way for all the mesa satellite amps (.50 calibers DC's etc). Mean distortion is mean distortion.

Then again metallica was never only about one mark amp. It maybe the core but the topping is also beautiful and includes recto's, Diezels, marshalls (always...) etc. Diezel fans almost loose colour and get angry when they hear that hetfield used the old mark IIC+ crunch berries (and a krankestein) and not the VH4 for death magnetic!!!

I saw them two days ago and their live setup was triaxis (mark IIC+ setting) mixed with VH4 for hetfield, dual recto+ RMKH100 for hammett (which includes marshall and recto modules)...hetfield places 8 mics in two 4x12 in isolation box with phase cancelling. So they have it all!!! This is not replicated with mark unfortunately.

Regardless of the above almost useless info, almost every mesa boogie is a solid basis for that heavy rythm sound.

The f-series that you mentioned really reminds me of load era metallica. Fatter sound almost a cross between recto and marks with very good characteristics from both. Tight enough (an eq up front makes it tightest) fat smooth and punchy or even cutting it almost nails modern dream theater and metallica in one amp!!! I could describe it as a modern take on the old mesa sound but not at recto extremes (which descends from marshall designes in a sense!)

Just search about tommy inkila and his clips. Petrucci forum or harmony central.

Also tremoverbs and rectoverbs do nail some of that vibe in 112-212 combo format and this is also win in my book.


Marks etc are really the thing to go too for old school riffs though but the more I hear certain clips like chuctallica's which are among the best the more I miss the marshall influence in the sound they had/have going.

How do you find it in one amp?

 

[Heritage Softail]

I would toss in there to play as many amps as you can. Mesa amps have a voice that characteristics can be modified in gain, saturation, tonal qualities, etc..... But the voicing of the amp does not change.

I like the metal voicing of Mesa. Like Metallica and feel no need to apologize for that to the elitist metal douche bags out there. The Rectifier is my fav riffing and Mark series for leads. The Express is a great amp and to my ears it excells in blues, classic rock, and leads. A little compressor and AC Boost.... you are good to go.

You can always add a Wampler Triple Wreck to nail a rectifier tone. You Tube that beast. It is freaky good. And Express with the TW will be the most versatile grab and go setup IMO.