Are amps like wine?

[barryswanson]

I was wondering if amplifiers sound better with age? Like do the components improve tonally after after they have been run for X amount of time? The reason I ask is because my Mark V is three years old with the original tubes and man it f*&$king just keeps getting sweeter. Like every time I plug it in and strum a chord I have an eargasm and look at it and smile. I took me nearly two years to find my sound but now I just play I'm not turning knobs all the time. It's just like the manual said once you find your sound your playing will improve.

I feel sorry for the people who buy a Mark V and don't give it enough time to find what it can do! It's the most amazing thing i've ever owned. I play mine through an oversized recto slant 412 and people complain about the ice pick sound. I'm not even sure what that is I think they must just not know how to dial it in.

Maybe its my cab being broken in because it only two years old ?

But I must thank Mesa for this little box of magic and Metallica for putting a list of there equipment they used in the back of the And Justice For All album booklet. When I was a young teenager and saw they used some amp called a Mesa Boogie I knew one day I must own one of these because they sound nothing like my solid state Marshall.

Anyway I'm going off on tangents here but do you think your amp keeps getting better?

 

[elvis]

There is no question that he components change over time. Though 90% is the tubes themselves. They change in a year in the way other components change in 10-20 years.

Whether you think they sound better or worse over time is subjective, of course. Thus the battle between those who do or do not change original components that are clearly out of spec.

 

[bandit2013]

Speakers definitely go though a tonal change, the greatest between 30 and 120 hours of use, but they still continue to change but at a reduced rate. Capacitors will change over time due to change in temperature and will loose about 10% to 20% of their nominal value. Change in resistance will not happened if at all but at higher temperatures the resistance value will drop due to the characteristic negative temperature coefficient. Transformers will settle somewhat depending on plate structure and any magnetic field that may be held by the plates. Filament transformers (input transformers) do develop an unpowered magnetic field to them where as the Output transformer will not. Perhaps due to the different ferrous materials.

In other words, the answer to your question is yes and no. Wine ages best if unopened and carefully handled where as the amp will not improve over time if it is not used. The converse is also true if you use the amp more it will sound better similar to the wine tastes better the more you drink it. Either way, you ears will start ringing but only one will make the room spin (unless you are drinking wine while playing).

 

[LuizPauloDT]

I think that in this case it could be power tubes getting older (which apparently to your ears sounds better).
But IMO there's something that really makes things getting better overtime: the learning curve.
Everything I've spent some time (and a lot of time sometimes) dialing in, twekeeing and experimenting seems to get improved overtime. A couple of examples that came to mind: Mark V, TriAxis, Axe FX. Even my guitars setup...

 

[elvis]

Well written.

On top of that, you will recalibrate your taste in tone as you use an amp.

 

[bandit2013]

I would agree as I have changed my ways in terms of what I play. The bottom line is if you like the way the amp sounds you will play it more, and the more you play you essentially change and become more creative and focus more on emotional expression vs just playing. Guitars are more like wine but you have to use them. It is not the amp that makes your guitar playing sound great, it is you, the guitar player.

 

[BlackBoxy]

any electronic part have a kind of "burn in" time, they reach thier cruise speed after 120 hours playing, and they doen't move more tonally after !

its chemestry, the magic randall Smith told about !

its mainlly why i hate playing brand new amps , they doens't reached thier tone potential !

 

[richaxes]

Just like we can't 100% surely tell that every older wine tastes better than every newer wine, the same cannot be said about older, more worn in amps either.
There are two variations to this effect - first, the wear of the parts, which may make an amp sound different over decades, but it doesn't necessarily yield a better tone, it's just different. You either like it better or not.
The second one is the fact that in many cases vintage amps were made of better quality components that are simply nonexistent (or maybe available only in really high quality boutique stuff) today. This is not a myth or placebo thing - the sought after vintage amps often use military grade components that are more precise, have less noise, etc. This is not as surprising if you think about the time period the first tube amps were made - they used many leftover military parts from WW2.
Speakers are a different matter, though. They need to be broken in to reach their maximum potential.

 

[xdg999]

I've owned my c+ for 31 years and it's never had anything changed other than tubes. I can't remember what it sounded like back when I bought it but it sounds great now. The tubes that I currently have in it are Groove Tubes chinese 12ax7's and 6L6B's from the early 90's. A couple of years ago I tried a new full set of Mesa tubes and the amp lost it's magic. Last weekend I was using my Mark V 25 when I noticed that it's starting to open up. It really surprised me. The touch response has really improved and it's a lot more saturated on the c+ setting. Before it was just too compressed and narrow sounding. Whether it's the tubes breaking in, (The Mark V 25 also has nos chinese 12ax7's in it) or a combination of things happening there was an definate improvement in tone. I was thinking about selling it but now I think it's gonna stick around for awhile.

 

[BlackBoxy]

Just like we can't 100% surely tell that every older wine tastes better than every newer wine, the same cannot be said about older, more worn in amps either.
There are two variations to this effect - first, the wear of the parts, which may make an amp sound different over decades, but it doesn't necessarily yield a better tone, it's just different. You either like it better or not.
The second one is the fact that in many cases vintage amps were made of better quality components that are simply nonexistent (or maybe available only in really high quality boutique stuff) today. This is not a myth or placebo thing - the sought after vintage amps often use military grade components that are more precise, have less noise, etc. This is not as surprising if you think about the time period the first tube amps were made - they used many leftover military parts from WW2.
Speakers are a different matter, though. They need to be broken in to reach their maximum potential.

hi Rich, just take about electrolitycs caps wich amps are full of, thier dialectric need time to be formed, most of the time this happen after hours of playing, tone gets more accurate and detailed etc..

Mesa doesn't use general purpose caps, Barker (bmi)works mainly for high precision and military applications

 

[toneseeker911]

With the Mark V, like wine, for me it has just been understanding the nuances; the rotary controls and the GEQ and just adding or subtracting enough to taste. I can't get enough of this amp, it's been 4 years and nothing comes close to the power, feel and clarity of the Mark V.

 

[barryswanson]

With the Mark V, like wine, for me it has just been understanding the nuances; the rotary controls and the GEQ and just adding or subtracting enough to taste. I can't get enough of this amp, it's been 4 years and nothing comes close to the power, feel and clarity of the Mark V.

Ten Four big buddy!

 

[BigBadWolf]

Like wine? No. Not at all. Nooo.

Most wines (extremely rare exceptions excluded) taste like goats pee (don't ask), when they get older. So they get useless. I personally have never understood the idea of buying a bottle of 200 years old vinegar using loads of money. A decent tube amp lasts way longer, when maintained (ever tried to change spare parts in a wine?) well.

People rarely bother to learn, how to use their amps. They just keep searching The Tone by changing their gear, buying, selling, buying, selling (continue this one lifetime of an average musician). Althou there are differences in amps, that perfect sound doesn't come up as soon as you plug your guitar in it. Well if you're lucky enough, even that may happen. Someone might have left the buttons in lottery-winner position. But for most of us, only way to find the tone is the good ole "RTFM".

When people learn how to use their gear, the sound gets better. They also learn to match their fingers with amps response way better, if they stop their everlasting buy-sell-loop and stay with one amp long enough. Amp doesn't get better. The user does.

That's why i don't want my amps as i like my wine: cheap and pocket warm. Can't say that i'm happy when i need to tear (yet another) arm and leg off to get a Mesa, but at least they come in correct temperature. Hot :twisted:

 

[jb's 52]

I dunno...everytime I drink from my Mark V it's pretty intoxicating.

 

[boogieman60]

My V combo is 6 years old this month. No repair issues,noise,dropouts,etc. I replaced v1 with a groove tube and it was a happy accident. Old one was micro phonic. Mellowed out the high end a little. But this thing is a workhorse. I have played hundreds of gigs with it and practice a couple of times a week. Tubes are a couple of years old, all Mesa stock except v1. Does it sound better at 6 years old?? Yes Yes and yes..I recently started using 45 watt tube rec. chan. 1 on fat, chan. 2 on crunch and 3 on triode c. Nice sound at reasonable volume. also use widebody Thiele set about 4 feet apart and me in sonic middle. If you get one or have only had it a while, there is a steep learning curve with this amp. keep tweaking and you will find the sweet spots.