2x12 versus 1x12 in a lonestar special

[Spikey Si]

This may be a pretty basic question, but what are the main differences between 1x12 and 2x12? (Don't say 'the number of speakers'...) Anybody try them back to back? What do you guys prefer?

The reason for my question is that I have a 2x12 bought purely with the thought (without any knowledge...) that two are better than one for the spread of the sound but I am finding that, if any thing, it seems more directional than my mates 1x12 amps.... I wasn't able to try a 1x12 lonestar at the time and am now wondering if I have gone down the right route.

Has anyone had a 2x12 and replaced the 2 speakers with one 8 ohm speaker, as I am wondering if that may be an option down the line...

Thanks, Si

 

[djw]

plan-x should be along to school us on this shortly... but yes, it's been reported that the 1x12 seems to fill more space than the 2x12. It's counter-intuitive for sure. But the good news is that the 2x12 combo seems to do just fine with one speaker missing, which I guess creates the "de-tuned cab" effect. And it'll lighten the load considerably.

 

[plan-x]

The 1x12 has more resonance space of the cab and will sound better, fuller, and with none of that cancellation/comb effect going on with those darned speakers so close together. I still prefer to have the 2x12 for raw power. A 1x12 usually struggles in a band sitch. The 2x12 has the advantage of more volume available with two SPL sources. Unplugging one of the speakers could help. Give it a shot if you got a soldering iron. But beware, you can ruin the voice coil. I did What were they thinking soldering the terminals :evil: Had to make trip to Hollywood for a replacement.

A detuned cab has to be a closed back 2x12 with one speaker removed. That creates a huge front port. I use that on my ext. cab. The reason why I unplug one of my combo's speakers(sometimes) is to blend better with the detuned ext. cab's 1x12, rather than the dominence of the combo's 2x12 stacked on top of the ext. cab. It gets complicated. I mix the combo speakers as well, one Weber and a C-90.

Ok, for directional issues that all cabs suffer from ...I used weber Beam blockers for a while, but found that they had gaps of directiveness. I currently use Mitchell donuts for directional issues. They are the best I've used so far, and really work. They require a couple hours of work doing the mod though. Here's a thread on it. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41349&hilit=Mitchell+donuts

 

[Spikey Si]

I tried the doughnuts before but took them out, not because of a deteriation of the sound but as it didn't really resolve the problem. However, it does seem (verified by Jay Mitchell) that its the two speakers interfering that I'm experiencing so I'm going to replace the stock speakers with a new 8 ohm unit and refit the doughnut to see how that works for me.

Your views on what speakers you guys would recommend would be great...

Cheers, Si

 

[plan-x]

I'm running one different speaker in the combo. That in itself may be enough, not having the same two speakers side by side. I'm using a Weber ceramic Blue dog 50w lightly doped. I 'm not going to call it the holy grail. It's just a different flavor. The Weber California's have gotten some great reviews around here. As I discovered, the LSC's C-90's were a tough act to follow. Charles Reeder and I discovered very few speakers that could give the amp it's mojo. V-30's for example were a step down. Charles liked the EVM's, but eventually moved on to reconditioning C-80's or something. Maybe he'll chime in and give us some of his wisdom.

 

[djw]

It's probably worth it to try 1 different speaker first if that stands a chance of canceling out the comb phase effect. In that case, if it works, you'd still have a C90 in there -- which is really an excellent speaker, I think -- and the whatever else is in there will just nudge the overall sound in its direction, without losing the C90 goodness altogether.

The C90 really is good for delivering the goods with both clean and dirty tones. The Webers seem to suffer a little on the dirt side; though looking at their site, the Chicago looks interesting. I might try one of those.

I'll be trying the EVM in my new Freda 1x12s when it arrives (this weekend, hopefully). I'll file a report on that, though I might just stick with the C90 for now... got shows coming up, and might not have time to experiment.

John, you have a Weber Silver Bell in one of those cabs, right? What do you think about that?

 

[Spikey Si]

As I have absolutely no problem with the c90's I will probably get one 8 ohm to replace both 16 ohms. I'm just a little nervous about shelling out for a new 16 ohm speaker to find that the directivity is still a problem.
I assume the only place to get them from is Mesa direct? Or do Celestion do an equivalent (I seem to remember reading that the classic lead was pretty close?) Given that, what should I do about the hole left by the 2nd speaker? Close it off?

Cheers, Si

 

[Spikey Si]

.... But the good news is that the 2x12 combo seems to do just fine with one speaker missing, which I guess creates the "de-tuned cab" effect. And it'll lighten the load considerably.

I see from the user manual that it says a 16 ohm speaker is a safe mismatch for the amp, but that it will run a little cooler... As my basic sound is a tele through ch1 with the gain at about 4.00 and the volume at about 11.00 and the effects loop knob on the back pushed up to about 2.00, I don't want to lose the punch and bite that I am getting at the moment. Is it a big change?

Sorry for all the questions! If the speaker connections were spade connectors I would just start disconnecting things, but as they are soldered and I dont have a soldering iron (maybe I should get one...) it takes a little more conviction to dive in...

 

[djw]

Yes, get a soldering iron, and take a look at some soldering tips -- like "advice" tips

Also, if you put a single 16ohm load on that 8ohm output jack and run the amp at 50 watts, the match is perfect -- it won't be running cold or anything.

 

[Spikey Si]

Yes, get a soldering iron, and take a look at some soldering tips -- like "advice" tips

Also, if you put a single 16ohm load on that 8ohm output jack and run the amp at 50 watts, the match is perfect -- it won't be running cold or anything.

Its a Lonestar Special I have, but I will give it a bash on 30w with the one 16 ohm and see how we get on.

Thanks!

 

[plan-x]

John, you have a Weber Silver Bell in one of those cabs, right? What do you think about that?

Damon, the Silver bell Sounds similiar to the Blue Dog, but with a little more bottom and top end sparkle. Both speakers have a somewhat scooped mid. They mix well with the C-90. But I prefer the C-90 in all my cabs if I got to choose just one speaker.

Hey guys, Another speaker I'm liking alot is (mentioned in another thread with djw) the Mojotone BV-30V. It is a V-30 voiced speaker without all the common complaints of V-30's.

 

[lance]

I have a V1 LSC, 1x12 with a Celestian V30. It came w/ the amp when I bought it. (I am the second owner.) As far as I know, I do not have the Reeder Mod. I really like channel two. It's hard to imagine this amp sounding better than it already does. All of these speakers are great suggestions, it comes down to personal taste.

 

[djw]

Also, if you put a single 16ohm load on that 8ohm output jack and run the amp at 50 watts, the match is perfect -- it won't be running cold or anything.

Its a Lonestar Special I have, but I will give it a bash on 30w with the one 16 ohm and see how we get on.

Ah, right, in that case you should try it in the 15 watt setting, where the match should be perfect. Half of full output is what I was after. The output impedance wants a load that's twice what the jack is labeled as, which has full power in mind. This is why they say for us LSC owners to use the 4 ohm jack with the 8 ohm load when using 6V6s.