1st Rectifier

[Rkorn]

Hey,
just got my Dual Rec 3ch no multiwatt. (2nd hand GREAT price)
It sounds really great! Huge!!

It is remarkable how different it sounds from the Mark. The MV sounds a lot more focused, a lot more efficient!
My guitar is custom made, it has a LOT of bass, and it is tuned to Standard C. I have to remove all Bass from the amp otherwise it gets to flubby! And it still sounds flubby.
Never though a Tube Screamer would come in handy (i'm trying to get someone to lend me one for me to try it out).

I believe the Mark V for Palm Mute sounds better, but for open chords the Rec is awsome, so thick!!!
2nd and 3rd channels sound really identical!!!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I generally prefer brighter pickups, and with the Recto I really like EMGs (60/81). I run the bass around 11:30 on modern and 2:00 on vintage with no mud.

With passive pickups (my other guitars have lower output PAF style pickups) I generally run modern's bass around 9:00 for a trashy tone and maybe a little higher for a rock tone. Vintage runs around 12:00, but in this case I don't mind a little mud on my riffs because I use it as a lead channel so I like the extra fatness.

Is your cab the Recto 2x12 or 4x12? I find the 2x12 is a little more scooped sounding and can get a little too bassy faster than the 4x12, which produces more midrange.

As you get up in volumes the mud that can sometimes be an issue at lower volumes dries up as the V30s start to rage and kick out more midrange. It's almost the total opposite of a Mark, which tends to sound thin and midrangy at lower volumes then produces more bass as you turn it up.

 

[Rkorn]

Yesterday I only played every channel and every mode to make sure everything was running.
Today i'll be going through it more carefully (as I only read the manual last night)

My cab is a 212 Rec and when i tried the Rec it was through a Marshall 412 with v30s!!!
If my MKV sounds perfect with a 212 maybe the DR only works (best) with a 412...

I have Schaller Active Humbuckers!! They sound a lot more organic than the EMGs and that's why i chose them. I was going for some Passive with Active behaviour but did't want to go through trial/error thing! I'm happy with it wit the MKV but with the Rec... Lets see...
Maybe an EQ will solve things??? I've been looking to get one for ages! I'm happy with a GREAT tone, no need for FX!

 

[screamingdaisy]

My cab is a 212 Rec and when i tried the Rec it was through a Marshall 412 with v30s!!!
If my MKV sounds perfect with a 212 maybe the DR only works (best) with a 412...

That's kind of how I feel about it. I generally prefer the 4x12 with both, but the little bit of a scoop on the 2x12 works nice with the Mark V, whereas I find it's a little much with a Recto.

That said, the 2x12 can be a totally different experience if you can get about 20 feet out in front of it. The scoop goes away and it sounds much more balanced.

 

[Rkorn]

That is exactly what i noticed today. The further from The cab The better.
Today i sat down for 2 hours with The DR and Managed to get what i was looking for.
Great tone! Also realised that ch 2 and 3 are not that equal (they are not clones and it says so in The manual!
Managed to move The bass knob up while fiddling with All The others!
GREAT/AWSOME tone but not a MV.
i use one of The 2 8ohms... Is one of them better than The other for just one cab??
The MV hás 2 ohms and one of them says combo and thats The one i always use!! Even if with a 212

 

[Rkorn]

That is exactly what i noticed today. The further from The cab The better.
Today i sat down for 2 hours with The DR and Managed to get what i was looking for.
Great tone! Also realised that ch 2 and 3 are not that equal (they are not clones and it says so in The manual!
Managed to move The bass knob up while fiddling with All The others!
GREAT/AWSOME tone but not a MV.
i use one of The 2 8ohms... Is one of them better than The other for just one cab??
The MV hás 2 8ohms and one of them says combo and thats The one i always use!! Even if with a 212

 

[screamingdaisy]

GREAT/AWSOME tone but not a MV.

I agree. Totally different vibe and response. A lot of people seem to think they're similar since they both produce the stereotypical "Mesa" sound, but they both go about it in a totally different fashion.

i use one of The 2 8ohms... Is one of them better than The other for just one cab??
The MV hás 2 ohms and one of them says combo and thats The one i always use!! Even if with a 212

They're both the same.

With the Mark V they put combo on one in an attempt to dumb it down for combo users who don't understand impedance.

 

[Rkorn]

All I can say regarding this Dual Rec, after a weekend of playing. Live will be next weekend..
I can't understand why this is THE amp for so many people when you have a Mark for sale side-by-side with the DR.
The distortion on the DR is great but somehow it lacks compression and power! don't get me wrong, it sounds huge!!! it hits you in the chest when you palm mute!! But with the Mark, it hits you constantly!!!
For me the MV is just better! (regarding high gain, i will not comment on the rest of the amp as i'm not familiar with it yet) but being able to have a DR just for fun is just great! I haven't played the DR while someone is playing the MV (next weekend also)
I believe they will sound great with an AB box for recording!!!!

 

[domct203]

I believe they will sound great with an AB box for recording!!!!

The mix of the two together is total High Gain Bliss!

Dom

 

[screamingdaisy]

I can't understand why this is THE amp for so many people when you have a Mark for sale side-by-side with the DR.
The distortion on the DR is great but somehow it lacks compression and power! don't get me wrong, it sounds huge!!! it hits you in the chest when you palm mute!! But with the Mark, it hits you constantly!!!

The lack of compression gives you more control over how the Recto distorts. After playing the Recto for awhile you start to develop the ability to manipulate how it behaves through varying your pick attack and muting techniques. Killer for riffing.

The trade off is that while chords sound huge single notes recess. So, playing something like Lamb of God where there's lots of single notes I find the amp lacks power. This is where something like a Mark really shines.

With a Recto you can compensate using a tubescreamer to add compression and push the single notes out more.

 

[Rkorn]

The recto distortion has a buzz to it... I don't know if I can explain it. But it's this frequency that just kills me, the only way to remove it is to cut down a lot on the presence or treble, I already have Mids all the way down!!
Should new tubes take care of this?? Next week I'll be getting some new pre tubes trying to improve the tone of the beast! I'm so used to the MV that this almost doesn't feel like the tone I'm used to hearing.
I play standard C and I know that this might be a problem!

 

[Blaklynx]

The recto distortion has a buzz to it... I don't know if I can explain it. But it's this frequency that just kills me, the only way to remove it is to cut down a lot on the presence or treble, I already have Mids all the way down!!
Should new tubes take care of this?? Next week I'll be getting some new pre tubes trying to improve the tone of the beast! I'm so used to the MV that this almost doesn't feel like the tone I'm used to hearing.
I play standard C and I know that this might be a problem!

Congrats on the amp.

There's plenty about buzz,fizz and EQing if you search.

Don't turn any EQ down to zero. You'll kill the signal and it will sound bad. I've tried this and it doesn't sound good. You need to let signal pass through.

Try these values with an OD in front....

O'clock values:
Gain around 10~12
Treble down around 9.30~10
Mids around 10~12
Bass around 9~10
Presence zero or around 8

Boost with a OD pedal, Tube Screamer or equivalent. I find an MI Audio Blues Pro pedal better than the standa Ibanez offerings. Gain around 9~11 oclock smooths out the amps drive grittiness, level around 11~12oclock, tone to taste. Add an EQ pedal after it to shape the tone better as I find the pedals tone control a little 'flat'.

EQ pedal in the loop, cut around 200Hz to get rid of some mud. You can boost the top end and upper mids for clarity.

To get you started:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=49265
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=52293
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=53756
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=52136
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48501

Plenty to read but I think the more you understand this amp, the better you'll find it. Goes without saying, really.

Have fun.

 

[Neptical]

Rkorn,

I'm with you brother. Not as a discouragement, but it's the same problem I always had with my Rec. But again, I always had the Mark sounds in my head for years after hearing a buddie of mines in the 80s, so I think I expected too much from the get go. I always tried to make it what it wasn't. Being a straight up lead player from my hey-days, in the end I found it wasn't the amp for me. Though I got to be honest, I miss that amp ( as much trouble I went through with it). Probably more sentimental then anything as I brought it on a few tours.

 

[Rkorn]

Blaclynx: Tks! i will try those settings this afternoon but i don't think they will work for me as I'm more into Brutal tone, Death/Black metal tone! Though my style is not pure Death or Black i really like the tone I get from these kind of settings for what I play.
I will try them for sure in a few hours!!! (I don't have any of those pedals, even though I'm searching for someone to lend me one to try it out)

Neptical: Mark is My kind of tone, but i guess I was expecting something a bit more IN YOUR FACE. I believe MV is better a this!
Recto tone would be almost Perfect without that buzz/fizz! I will try a Fish&Chips today.. lets wait and see!!

I got this amp to spare the MV to some crazy stuff i go with the amps i have! Jams, last minute concerts etc...
i know this is not a Mark but i guess i was expecting a bit more! Maybe it is the Tuning... Standard C is a bit too much for some amps. But shouldn't be to a Rectifier! When someone thinks Metal, its always Rectifier the 1st suggestion, but it is too... i don't know... to round sounding, not that brutal! (i don't know if i'm making myself clear) I believe this is what makes this amp so hard to record.
Funny how a MV is a lot heavier that a Rec (at least i believe it is)
I'm still getting to know this amp and i believe (like all boogies) that it will sound better once i have another guitar on the mix and i can back down the gain, presence, etc!!!

 

[Blaklynx]

Try those settings, however I don't play Death/Black Metal....... so will those settings work? Hard to say. Also, I like Raw mode better when I dial in my amp. Vintage is good but when I push with OD pedals and use EQ pedals, I find it's easier to work in Raw mode.

Tubes can make a difference, too. Many like the reissue Tungsol 12AX7 in V1. Also, a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS or a 12AT7 (EH or other brand) is popular in the Phase Inverter position, too. For power valves, some users prefer EL34's, like I do. I feel it smooths out the tone a little with EL34's. It's your choice - experiment.

The Rectos take time to dial in. One day they sound awesome, the next you're scratching your head. Just keep adjusting and experiment. Best advise I read on this site: Use your ears and close your eyes when adjusting the amp. Forget where the amp dials sit.

Read the links and search the site. There's plenty of info available. Try and uderstand what users are saying and eventually it'll start to make sense. I understand that you're excited and want things to happen, but take your time and learn the amp.

You have to remember, we can only talk about our experiences and what we think sounds good, so it's very subjective. For me, I think my setup sounds good. To you, it may sound real bad. But there's more to it than just the amp. Guitar, pickups, playing style, speakers, cab, room...... all this combined = your sound.

Have fun.

 

[screamingdaisy]

My first suggestion is to not adjust the EQ on a Rectifier until you've been playing it for 10 to 15 minutes. This is a lesson I constantly forget, only to fire up my amp, hate the sound, adjust everything so it sounds good, then once everything is warmed up have to go back and return all the settings to where they were before. The amp sounds a lot harsher/brighter when everything (amp, speakers, my ears) is cold. Once it everything warms up it sounds rounder and more pleasant.

About the scooped mids thing... there's a reason everyone tells people not to scoop the mids on a Recto; cutting the mids rounds the sound out. Adding mids stiffens it back up again. If you want "brutal" in a modern context you need a lot of midrange. Scooped mids sounds way to 1985-1994. The Recto already has a fairly tailored midrange... modern mode with the mids up higher will give you the scooped effect without totally carving out your mids. This aggressive midrange is one of the reasons why amps like the Recto and 5150 are standards for modern metal. I run mine around 11:30 as I like a bit of roundness in my response. Some people run it up around 1:00 to give it a tighter, harder edge.

For more aggression, sweep the gain knob between 11:00 and 2:00. There's a point where it sounds distorted, but it's a really hard distortion that maintains a lot of clarity rather than mushing everything together. It's not very saturated, so there's little compression to hide behind and you'll have to have good pick control to make it sound good. Once you figure out where that spot is increase the master volume for more saturation instead of the using the gain. This will give you the tightest, punchiest response, particularly when combined with a Recto 4x12.

Treble is kind of a personal taste thing, but I find the Recto works best for metal if it's somewhere around 12:00 and 1:00. Puts a bit of a point on my pick attack. Some songs with technical riffs will work better with less pick attack. In that case I roll the tone knob on my guitar off a bit until the pick attack becomes less obnoxious. Alternatively, I'll roll my guitar's volume off to 8 or 9 to tighten things back up. For example, if I were playing a song like Metallica's Seek and Destroy I'd have the volume/tone full up to add a more aggressive snarl to the picking, whereas something like Lamb of God's Laid to Rest I'd back the guitar's volume/tone pots off a bit so that you can hear every note picked clearly.

That's where the Recto differs from a Mark. WIth a Mark you can have a mountain of compression with the the gain on 7 or 8 playing a technical riff like Laid to Rest and you'll hear each note clearly. There are trade offs for that compression, but that's a story for another thread.

Bass depends on pickups. With EMGs (81) I run the bass up around 11:00 or so. WIth passives I'll cut it down to somewhere between 9:00 and 10:00.

Presence is a taste thing. For me it's the knob I adjust the most. Some days the amp sounds a little duller so I run it up higher. Other days it has a lot of high end so I'll cut it to make it sound fatter. Usually it's somewhere between 9:00 and 1:00.

 

[cheameup]

no mids, too much gain= fizzy sound that everyone complains about . all you have is treble buzzzng away on top of the huge bass . turn some knobs and it goes away

The best way to make a recto sound crap IMHO is to turn the mids right down . some amps you can dial in with your eyes to what you think it should be and it sounds good rectos arnt like that


but what your used to hearing is def a big part of it . it always is with new gear . I actually jumped on a mark in a shop a month or so ago for teh 1st time and really didnt care for it cause it was too different to what I'm used to sounding like now .

 

[Rkorn]

Screamingdaisy and all of you are quite right!
Tomorrow i'll be going over to my rehearsal space, open the Boogie Board and roll the knobs accordingly to what is being said here (today didn't have the chance as we were moving for 1 rehearsal place to a new one which is an old disco hehehehhee)

Mesa Boogies have lots of mids, that's why i believed turning them down would solve the problem! But now that i think of it... after reading all your advices, i notice that the Mid knob does not apply much mids, but maybe bring the whole tone forward and that's what i was doing wrong! I just wish i didn't have to work tomorrow morning so that i could be playing right now!!!
Tomorrow right afternoon i'll be messing around with the amp, lets wait and see! the fizz is what kills me but i believe there are some good advices here!!!
TKS

 

[Blaklynx]

One thing you need to realise if you haven't already....

Each tone control affects the other tone controls. The treble tone control has the most affect on the the other two (mids and bass). As you turn up the treble, the mids and bass get lower, even if you don't touch the mid and bass controls. As you turn down the treble, the mid and bass get higher. Yes, it's weird but that's how the amp is designed.

To test for yourself, put mid at 12oclock, bass at 9oclock and play with the treble. Chug on a low E or A string and you'll hear how the amp reacts - tighter, softer, hear the pick attack, etc.

Find a balance between treble, mids and bass according to how you want the amp to behave/feel. Once you find your basic tone and the amps behaviour/feel, if you think that it's too bright or too dull or too bass-y, place an EQ in the loop to compensate. Remember, sometimes it's better to cut frequencies rather than boost frequencies and compensate with the volume controls if perceived volume drops because of EQing > keep this in mind.

Your excitement is killing me.... LOL

 

[boss4]

rkorn, I know exactly what your going through. Everything you've said I've been saying for years (but not anymore). The buzz, the thing I call the round sound - sometimes the monster truck sound (big, huge, but not sharp, focused), the lack of sustain and attack in the single notes (yes, with passive/active/different brands of pickups) had been in my head for the past years. The amp make the playing dificult. With my Line6 I manage to play the same riffs and licks much more easily than with the recto and they sound fluid.
You have to understand it (the amp) and help him. I've own it for about 8 years now, so we are close friends and we know eachother. I've had to change some of my technique, pick attack and even the attitude of playing (not that much, though) and had to put some equipment to help him/me out. I have a Boss Turbo Overdrive OD-2 (I´ve tryed the Ibanez TS-9 but I prefer this one and I want to try the Maxon OD-808) in front of the amp and I also have a Boss GE-7 in the FX-Loop. This two buddies help things a lot. The OD-2 give accuracy on the notes, compression (this remindes me that I also want to try the Robert Keeley 4 knob comp or some other good comp), focus on the licks and solos and the GE-7 give you the ability to remove the buzz/fizz on the pre of the amp and maintain the body/hugeness of your tone. You have to get used to it and give it (plenty of) time. My friend have a Marshall TSL (good amp) and is plug and play, for me it toke days and some extras to put it sounding the way I want, but it worth it and the "poor" Marshal only makes shadow to it (at least in the hi-gain area).
Some tube changes might help a bit too, like a Tung-Sol on the v1 socket, different brands/colours (dirty,medium,clean) in the power amp area. After this all I can say is that I love my Recto but I have consciousness of his weak and strong points. I recently tryed a guitar with a Gibson 500-T in the bridge and everyone in the room were blown away by the attack it gave to the tone. Definitely a must buy for the next month. Some day I have to try a Mark V so I can compare both.
By the way, I'm in Portugal too Boa sorte!