12AX7 choices for a single rec

[SneakyPete]

I'm on a tone quest and am looking for options to change my sound, but I don't want to shell out a lot of cash for NOS if I don't have to (plus, I don't know how the sound will change and I don't want to waste the cash on a tube if it's not what I'm looking for.

So far, I've tried the standard Mesa 12AX7, the JJ ECC83 and the GTAX7-M.

To me the standard mesa was icepick hell. I know a lot of people have had good luck with the JJ's, but to me they had too much of a high end sound. I've been using the Mullard clone in V1 and it has helped smooth out the sound (with the JJ's in V2-V5), but I guess I'm never satisfied

Has anyone had luck with other 12AX7's - how have thy changed your sound and what slot did you use them in (V1, V2, etc.)? I've been thinking either GE or RCA NOS, but I don't know how they would work in a high-gain setting.

 

[sonixx]

I pulled my Mesa's too...

I have tried EH and they were nice. Actually I've tried and liked EH in several different amps.

Right now in my DR 3Ch Solo I have a RCA in V1 and two Westinghouse short plate (Yugoslovia) in V3 and V4 (I think) and I really like this combo.

If you have a chance, go to a HAM Fest and look for tubes. Be picky, but you can find some gems.

I've tried C9s and didn't like them... two bright.

-Keith-

 

[lukeness]

what's a HAM fest?

 

[sonixx]

what's a HAM fest?

It's a HAM Radio flee market. Usually several are held each year around bigger cities like Charlotte, NC or Greenville, SC, Atlanta, GA and others. Tubes are usually there in abundance.

Ask around...

 

[ishoulddie]

i've had good results with a Mullard in V1, and an R.F.T. in V2 or V3 (depending on which channel you're using for distortion) of my Dual Rectifier. The R.F.T. sounds really good in V1 too. Thick sounding, with lots of harmonics. Also, i really like using a 12AT7 in the V5 (phase inverter) position. Clears things up a bit, without sacrificing a good distortion sound.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Ishoulddie's combo sounds like a winner to me, SneakyPete. Especially the RFT ECC83, which breaks up and sings easily. Only drawback with the RFT is a loss of articulation/definition. The version of the Mullard in V1 (short plate, long plate, box plate) makes a difference in characteristics. I don't think you can go wrong with any NOS version of RCA, with older black plates likely to be more dynamic. I've recently written up my notes on various NOS tube substitutions (using a Triaxis), if you care to peruse:

http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749

 

[SneakyPete]

Timber Wolf -

wow - great writeup!! thanks for all of the great ideas...now I just have to find them :lol:

 

[lukeness]

Yeah, that's definitely a cool write up.

Are the V1-V5 positions the same for the Triaxis as it is for a Single Recto?

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Thanks guys!

Are the V1-V5 positions the same for the Triaxis as it is for a Single Recto?

I'm sure the preamp positions differ in function, to a degree. I don't know about the SR setup, but the principles would be the same (input, gain, phase inverter, output). You can roughly translate by looking at the SR manual, and seeing each valve's function.

 

[vulture2600]

ummm no phase inverter in a triaxis!
thats for the power section only.
heres what it is for triaxis:
v1 lead 1 input
v2 input for all other modes
v3 lead and rhythm mixer
lead 2
fx loop

SR:
v1a: input
v1b 2nd stage (rhy/lead)
v2a 3rd stage rhy
v2b 3rd stage lead
v3a 4 stage lead
v3b 5 stage lead
v4 fx
v5 phase

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

In my Triple:
v1 JJ ECC803
v2,3 JJ ECC83S hi-gain
v4 Mesa SPAX7
v5 JJ ECC83S hi-gain, balanced

The 803 sounds a lot like the GT 12AX7-M with deeper lows and crisper highs, and from what I hear better reliability (although the 2 GT's I have seem to be okay.)
I couldn't hear much if any difference in tone with different tubes in the V4 spot, but the SPAX7 has noticeably less noise.

Are NOS really better? Sure they are, but I'm not convinced they are worth the money for high-gain, multichannel amps. IMO you would hear the difference more in a simpler circuit. They do last a lot longer, even in high gain amps.

 

[ishoulddie]

The version of the Mullard in V1 (short plate, long plate, box plate) makes a difference in characteristics.

Just to clarify, i have a shorter plate Mullard. Got it used from eBay a few years back, so i didn't have to break the bank to get it. Going that route can be a crap shoot, but i was lucky with that particular one. Never tried a long plate though, i don't ever seem to see those go for very cheap!

The RFTs can be pretty pricey as well ($30 or so a pop for NOS), but seeing as how the GT Mullard copies retail for $26, i'd say RFTs are still a pretty good deal.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Yes, eBay can be a crap shoot. I just (two months ago) got the strongest-testing RFT ECC83 I've ever owned for $8.95 there, though. On the other hand, I thought I just got a bargain buying two of the long-plate '50s Mullard 12AX7s for the same price I'd get one used from a pro dealer, and though they both tested as exceptional, they were worthless when put to the test in my amp. Overall, with the right information on how to identify tubes accurately, and with some forthright and courteous communication skills, I find eBay to be worth the risk. If you're obsessed like me (I make OCD work for me), you'll do what you can to get your tone/feel.

The long-plate '50s Mullards are pricey ($45-100), but I find them irreplaceable. In my experience, long-plates are much more articulate than the short-plate versions, have more low frequencies available, and have distinct, sweet and airy highs (short-plates are very bright, in my experience). Factor in the extended lifetime that all true Mullards have over new production options, and you find that you're probably spending less overall for carefully selected NOS tubes.

If you’re looking for a bargain, here’s a tip I believe is worth a try. Bid on some Raytheon 12AX7A tubes (long black plate, halo-getter, from early ‘60s; often labeled “Baldwin” from Baldwin organs). They go for about $10 a piece, and are like no others I’ve ever tried: crisp, articulate, with great early breakup into a bloom of rich harmonics. Their breakup has sort of a rougher character when compare to the Mullard. You know, Mullards get all of the attention and mystique, but I hold these US-made Raytheon tubes in equal esteem. They’re kind of like my favorite dessert, crème-brulee: crunchy and sweet on top, and rich and smooth underneath. Mmmmm!