Roadster use with 7-string guitar (if you can find the tubes that is)

I would have thought the Roadster or even the MWDR would be great with the extended range instrument. Well, I was wrong. Sure, the Badlander is a better alternative to the extended range instrument than either of the two Dual Rectifier amps. I believe the NOS tube thread on the Roadster sort of had me poking for more investigation of the Roadster. It is a really good amp as is but now it is even better and I did need to use a soldering iron to get there.

The bad news is this was done with Mesa tubes now classified as NOS tubes. Power section was loaded with the STR440 (red bias color) and the preamp section was loaded with 1990 Mesa 12AX7 unobtanium Chinese Beijing Square foil getter tubes, aka 6N4-J military grade. V1 was an original Mesa marked tube and the rest were from Ruby tubes sold by Doug's Tubes when he had them available.



This helped to remove the swamp of sub harmonics considerably. The low-end content is still there, but it remains tight and does not drown you with lingering low end that defeats the purpose of the 7-string instrument. It was not a goal I was trying to reach, just a side effect of the change in preamp tubes and drop in bias range on the 6L6GC. It sounded really good with the 6 string, I tried it with the 7 and discovered it was amazing. The other aspect was getting to love this amp with the Standard 412 cab loaded with the V30. The Roadster was the one that did not do as well as any of the other amps. It was ok, just not what I wanted to hear. I had used a rebuilt OS recto cab I loaded with EV speakers with that amp but now I feel the Stock cab sounds much better.

If you do look for the tubes, just note that the space between the top two mica spacers will have clear glass in that area. If they are used, it will be a dark color, if they are EOL, it will be almost black and may look reflective like the getter flash. I have seem some for sale stating like new but more like EOL as the space was completely blacked out.

i use 7s with my roadster tuned to G#. STR440 and Chinese pre no flub. =)

I only wish I knew this would work as good as it does.

Have you had any luck with the Rev F and Rev G Rectifiers and 7 string guitars? I need to work out the preamp section on the MWDR one of these days. Was curious if the older Rectos had a similar effect as it is quite different than the Roadster.

I would have to say the change in preamp tubes was a win for the Roadster, I am not using it now but when I do, it is on par with the other amps for the extended range guitars.

been using 7s and my rev F and G for years prior to getting my Roadster .. i run an RFT in v1.

I found my Roadster to be more ‘tubby’ than flubby LOL, and as long as I had the amp up at very loud levels it was not too bad for rhythm work, but the sub-harmonic content made lead work a bit too mushy. The low end drone would kill the sustain in slower melodic lines and natural harmonics. I tried all kinds of tubes, NOS and current production. also went through many different speakers and pickups, both passive and active. Best thing I did was send the amp to Trace at Voodoo Amps for a custom mod. It’s a shame he stopped doing public mods, the man is a genius in the amp world.

I don’t have too many home clips of the Roadster, but this one is my favorite that shows the capability of a tweaked Recto.



I’m playing a 2013 Gibson Les Paul ‘Signature T’ traditional with a PRS Tremonti Treble at the bridge and a Dimarzio PAF Pro at the neck.

Here’s a couple of tracks from our last CD. Cleans are CH1 Tweed, heavy rhythms CH4 Modern, leads and solos CH3 Modern, all silicone diode rectifier 100W. Same guitar and pickups.





And of course, a bit of amp porn





Dom

Do you still have the Roadster? Just curious since you are now running the TC100s.
Great recordings Dom.

Thanks Bandit.

I’ll have that Roadster forever. It’s a great amp that can cover a lot of ground. I’ve always regretted selling my 2001 Triple Recto, went through a bunch of amps until I found the Roadster in 2007 and had been playing it steady until last year when I got more into the TC.

I switched it up to the Triple Crowns as an inspirational change… We’re working on a 3rd CD and I didn’t want the guitars to sound and feel like the last two projects. I’m really enjoying the different feel with the TC, it makes me approach my playing a bit differently. I’m thinking I might even layer both amps on this next project.

And in all honesty the TC does lower volume much more consistently than the Roadster, which really needs to be at a good stage volume to give it its best tone and response.

In the end I’m sure I’ll sound like me regardless LOL.

But back on topic, I did always find that there was this sub-harmonic thing going on with the Roadster that I just couldn’t address without an amp mod. It became especially apparent when I starting messing with a friends baritone at the time. That big bottom end is just part of the Recto DNA. Trace at Voodoo did a great job of clearing out the mud without neutering the amp, and its focused on Modern mode.

There is one song from our last project that just doesn’t seem right without the Roadster for the heavy parts tho, especially with the pick attack during fast palm mutes.



Dom

I assume the next phase will be to incorporate the Roadster with the TC100 as a tri-amp rig. At least the Roadster has a mute so you can take it out easily. That is one blend of amps I never tried yet.

bandit2013 said:

I assume the next phase will be to incorporate the Roadster with the TC100 as a tri-amp rig. At least the Roadster has a mute so you can take it out easily. That is one blend of amps I never tried yet.

Click to expand...

While I am very curious how they would sound together a stereo rig is enough to deal with for now, and I don’t need the G.A.S. encouragementment LOL.

Dom

You need to try it, do it now... Actually, I do not believe the Roadster would play well with the TC100 especially if you use the lo gain channel, it will be out of phase.

What other amps do you have out of curiosity?

I have a Mesa Stiletto Deuce II, a Marshall DSL100, a Yamaha TH10 (love that thing), a Behringer Acoustic amp, a Behringer V-Amp pro and an Avid Eleven Rack.

Been through a bunch that I didn’t keep too.

Gone but not forgotten:
Mesa MarkIII head (first Mesa amp, wish I still had that one).
Mesa Stiletto Ace 1X12 combo.
Mesa Studio Pre.
Mesa TriAxis.
Mesa Simulclass 2:90.
Mesa Recto 2:100.
Peavey VTM120 (first tube amp, wish I still had that one too).
Peavey 5150.
Carvin V3.
Engl Powerball.

Dom

bandit2013 said:

I would have thought the Roadster or even the MWDR would be great with the extended range instrument. Well, I was wrong. Sure, the Badlander is a better alternative to the extended range instrument than either of the two Dual Rectifier amps. I believe the NOS tube thread on the Roadster sort of had me poking for more investigation of the Roadster. It is a really good amp as is but now it is even better and I did need to use a soldering iron to get there.

The bad news is this was done with Mesa tubes now classified as NOS tubes. Power section was loaded with the STR440 (red bias color) and the preamp section was loaded with 1990 Mesa 12AX7 unobtanium Chinese Beijing Square foil getter tubes, aka 6N4-J military grade. V1 was an original Mesa marked tube and the rest were from Ruby tubes sold by Doug's Tubes when he had them available.

View attachment 3011

This helped to remove the swamp of sub harmonics considerably. The low-end content is still there, but it remains tight and does not drown you with lingering low end that defeats the purpose of the 7-string instrument. It was not a goal I was trying to reach, just a side effect of the change in preamp tubes and drop in bias range on the 6L6GC. It sounded really good with the 6 string, I tried it with the 7 and discovered it was amazing. The other aspect was getting to love this amp with the Standard 412 cab loaded with the V30. The Roadster was the one that did not do as well as any of the other amps. It was ok, just not what I wanted to hear. I had used a rebuilt OS recto cab I loaded with EV speakers with that amp but now I feel the Stock cab sounds much better.

If you do look for the tubes, just note that the space between the top two mica spacers will have clear glass in that area. If they are used, it will be a dark color, if they are EOL, it will be almost black and may look reflective like the getter flash. I have seem some for sale stating like new but more like EOL as the space was completely blacked out.

Click to expand...

These supose to be 1 to 1 repoductions of those tubes here.

https://rubytubes.com/products/12ax...xX0UAHw56fz6q_E9OsHuCp0XDdNaBHboaAgvLEALw_wcB


I made another thread asking about them for the Mark 5 90W. I found 1 good NOS one and a possible bad mesa spa marked one today looking threw my my gear totes.

I am not sure those are the Beijing 6N4-J Military grade Square foil getter tubes. Shuguang made them back in 1990 in a Beijing facility. There are similar versions but with a halo getter made in some other province. Not the same tubes. I had a few of those (often called silver specials). I did not like those at all. Not the same quality of preamp tube. Too many changes to the design, may as well use a tung sol 12AX7 or the stock Mesa 12AX7 (JJ ECC83s). The description must at least have the "Beijing Square Foil Getter" in its description or it is not worth buying. I can tell by the single wire for the getter, those are the halo types. The Beijing square foil getters had two leads to support the getter part.


https://reverb.com/item/2212502-set...3459398_e7e9b966bdc0c5461dfed0bc2e51c266&sn=1

I call those tubes unobtanium as they have become difficult to get. Bummer. Was considering getting a few more of them too.

bandit2013 said:

I call those tubes unobtanium as they have become difficult to get. Bummer. Was considering getting a few more of them too.

Click to expand...

Are these them?

Ascendance said:

Are these them?

Click to expand...

The 2nd pic for sure has square foil dimple getter the other is a Mesa SPA from the late 80s early 90s

Ima pop the 2nd one in V1 on my mark V 90W and see what happens im like 99% that 2nd one is what your talking about.

Also I might snag these. What do you think?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3261541322...aWzQTERTDS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Or a few of those ones from ruby.

I hear preamp tubes cant realy screw up your amp they either work or dont ya? Im i correct?

Ascendance said:

Are these them?

Click to expand...

Yes sir, those are the Beijing tubes.

Ascendance said:

The 2nd pic for sure has square foil dimple getter the other is a Mesa SPA from the late 80s early 90s

Ima pop the 2nd one in V1 on my mark V 90W and see what happens im like 99% that 2nd one is what your talking about.

Also I might snag these. What do you think?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3261541322...aWzQTERTDS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Or a few of those ones from ruby.

I hear preamp tubes cant realy screw up your amp they either work or dont ya? I m

Click to expand...

Those are as well.

For best results, some of the Beijing tubes may be on the rich side in the gain. Use the SPAX in V1 on the Roadster. V2, you can use the other one as that will help with the sub-harmonic swamp. These tubes are also good for the cathode follower circuits V3 and V5. What you use for the V4 reverb, stock is ok there. Phase inverter tube, anything goes. If not mistaken, just for kicks I loaded the entire preamp, V1 was a mesa branded version. The rest were Ruby branded tubes I got from Doug's tubes. The power tube choice of what I had on hand was going to be the STR440 yellow codes. But had a quad of red codes I decided to try. OMG, the Roadster never sounded better, not just for the 6 string, It performed well with the 7 string guitars. Before the tube swap, I could not run a 7 string in the Roadster, too swampy. I only did the tube swap as an experiment, sort of glad I did. The low end is still there, just not as dominant. Now I can actually play without drone as I do a lot of palm-muting in my style.

Preamp tubes will not cause any harm, it you stick within the tube family (12AX7 range covers several varieties). Unlike power tubes, the triode pairs on the preamps are cathode biased so they run in pure class A mode. They may run at a high voltage but the current through them is very low. The exceptions would be with the DC coupled Cathode follower triode pair used in V3. Some tubes will not hold up in that circuit. Not sure if they will result in damage if they fail. Chinese tubes will hold up in those positions. JJ ECC83s (Mesa 12AX7 current) will also work there. Russian tubes, it is hit or miss. It has more to do with the voltage potential between the cathode and the heater element. There used to be a sticky note on tubes for the dual Rectifier. Not sure if those are in the forums any more.

Those same tubes in the Mark V, may tighten things up a bit. I actually liked them better in the Mark IVB. Also had good results in the Mark VII too. Badlander as well. Not so lucky with the JP2C, made things sound a bit fizzy but that could have been the STR440 tubes (that is what the JP2C shipped with back in 2016). I should revisit them in the JP2C now that I have the STR415 Sylvania tubes in it.

I have not tried the Beijing tubes in the MWDR yet. Perhaps I will when I decide to bring out the 412 cabs again. That one is a bit different than the Roadster and it seems to prefer the early distortion type power tubes. Colors in the green or grey STR440.