Mark V, best tones I've found for high gain "trick".

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Jyoung

Jyoung

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Long story short, I bought the Mark V 90 head as soon as they came out. I was never 100% happy with the high gain sounds compared to my Mark IV. I liked it, but didn't love it, etc. I tried boosts and eq's with some success, but still wasn't quite where I wanted my tone. Recently I tried a BBE sonic stomp in the loop, now this thing absolutely rips. It tightened up the bass frequencies and gave me a little more control of the high end etc. Im just really happy with this amp now, and I wanted to share in case someone else could benefit from it. My signal chain is noise gate in front, BBE in loop to Recto cab. Pretty basic, but now it sounds amazing. It took it from an amp that I wanted to like, to an amp I REALLY like, lol.
 
I wanted to come and post this....I was an early user of Mark amps and am self taught, so this left my education lacking in certain areas. I have for years had issues with the later Marks losing that "MARK" thing...and never got a satisfactory answer about how to fix it so it sounded and felt like a Studio pre or Mark 2 (that low gain GROWL AND SNARL)....then I am messing with my V the other day and have for about a year had it on the edge of compression...I spun it up and WOW>>>THERE IS WHAT WAS MISSING>>>OINLY IT WAS IN THE WRONG GAIN RANGE>>>seems earlier marks had MASSIVE COMPRESSION in the lead channel even when clean....put a compressor in my line after my guitar...and there it is...THAT MARK TONE>>>>it fills in the fron tend..I cant describe...but if you arent gaining the same signal..you wont get the same sound as an earlier mark and they changed to onset of compression in those amps. Stick a compressor in after your guitar and get that signal tighter and see if you dont get that low gain scream earlier marks were famous for. (Yes...a me issue...but SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE SAID HEY IDIOT>>THIS IS A DIFFERENCE)
 
Try using a grid slammer or flux drive up front. That also makes a world of difference on the V especially in the IIC+ or IV modes. Even better for the JP2C as I feel it needs a little more gain at times. Have not tried either with the Badlander or the Mark VII. Will have to remember to give them a try one of these days. Also I use both GS and FD with the California tweed 4:40. I am surprised how well that amp responds with a front-end helper or two.
 
bandit2013 said:
Try using a grid slammer or flux drive up front. That also makes a world of difference on the V especially in the IIC+ or IV modes. Even better for the JP2C as I feel it needs a little more gain at times. Have not tried either with the Badlander or the Mark VII. Will have to remember to give them a try one of these days. Also I use both GS and FD with the California tweed 4:40. I am surprised how well that amp responds with a front-end helper or two.
Click to expand...
YOU>>I was looking for you..if you dont run a compressor..TRY ONE>>IT TRULY FIXES THE V!!!
 
I've been using the BBE Sonic Maximizer in the loops of guitar and bass amps for 3 years now. I can't imagine going without it.
Now they have the Sonic Stomp Pro pedal that has a 3rd knob: 'Focus'. It's a midrange control, to go along with the usual 'Lo Contour' and 'Process' knobs. It's a very useful mid boost or cut - it sounds good either way. It's also pretty hard to find. Been backordered for a while now, and they rarely show up used and get bought immediately when they do.
The sonic maximizer definitely tightens the low end while also making it thumpy, and it sharpens the high end and balances the mids. Without it, the tone is very middy and a little dark, 'soft' around the edges.
In a 3-amp stereo wet/dry/wet rig, I use a BBE Maxcom (2-channel gate/comp/sonic maximizer) at the end of my stereo FX chain and a Sonic Stomp Pro in the dry amp FX loop, with the Mark V preamp feeding all 3 power amps.

I do have a Walrus Mira compressor in front, but it's mostly for clean tones. I do run it with high gain with the blend set at just 20% wet.
Wampler Belle and Precision Drive are good overdrives to tighten/sharpen the high gain tones.
And I have a 10 band parametric EQ in the loop.
 
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DECEMBER said:
I've been using the BBE Sonic Maximizer in the loops of guitar and bass amps for 3 years now. I can't imagine going without it.
Now they have the Sonic Stomp Pro pedal that had a 3rd knob: 'Focus'. It's a midrange control, to go along with the usual 'Lo Contour' and 'Process' knobs. It's a very useful mid boost or cut - it sounds good either way. It's also pretty hard to find. Been backordered for a while now, and they rarely show up used and get bought immediately when they do.
The sonic maximizer definitely tightens the low end while also making it thumpy, and it sharpens the high end and balances the mids. Without it, the tone is very middy and a little dark, 'soft' around the edges.
In a 3-amp stereo wet/dry/wet rig, I use a BBE Maxcom (2-channel gate/comp/sonic maximizer) at the end of my stereo FX chain and a Sonic Stomp Pro in the dry amp FX loop, with the Mark V preamp feeding all 3 power amps.

I do have a Walrus Mira compressor in front, but it's mostly for clean tones. I do run it with high gain with the blend set at just 20% wet.
Wampler Belle and Precision Drive are good overdrives to tighten/sharpen the high gain tones.
And I have a 10 band parametric EQ in the loop.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a killer rig man! What 10 band para eq are you using? I have a couple of MXR 6 and 10 bands. I was surprised that the 6 band does "more of that thing" I want over the 10... at least with my Mark IV and EVH 100 stealth, they both get a compressor up front and an MXR 6 band in the loop / always on pedals. I don't even consider them effects, lol.. its just to get my rhythm sounds right. With my Marshalls my "always on" pedals are some form of boost and a noise gate up front...
 
bandit2013 said:
Try using a grid slammer or flux drive up front. That also makes a world of difference on the V especially in the IIC+ or IV modes. Even better for the JP2C as I feel it needs a little more gain at times. Have not tried either with the Badlander or the Mark VII. Will have to remember to give them a try one of these days. Also I use both GS and FD with the California tweed 4:40. I am surprised how well that amp responds with a front-end helper or two.
Click to expand...
I'll have to try one of those boosts! Thanks for the recommend, that's why like this forum, lots of good advice...
 
Jyoung said:
That sounds like a killer rig man! What 10 band para eq are you using? I have a couple of MXR 6 and 10 bands. I was surprised that the 6 band does "more of that thing" I want over the 10... at least with my Mark IV and EVH 100 stealth, they both get a compressor up front and an MXR 6 band in the loop / always on pedals. I don't even consider them effects, lol.. its just to get my rhythm sounds right. With my Marshalls my "always on" pedals are some form of boost and a noise gate up front...
Click to expand...
Ashly PQX 572, a rackmount 2-channel 7-band. I patch out 1 -> in 2, making it a 1-channel 14-band. 4 are semi-parametric, 10 are fully parametric.
I also have a Source Audio EQ2. 2-channels of 10-band fully parametric plus high & low shelving. Channels can be stacked in series to make it 20 bands. It's digital but has presets. I use the Ashly set where it is, then the presets on the EQ2 to make modifications to suit each amp channel/voicing.
The used Ashly cost the same as the 3-band Empress pedal. 4x as much EQ.
 
I thought I would mention it to you...I know you had the same issues...or similar issues...I am thinking...and reading...there were massive changes around 2010..mine was 2017...so a pedal and the changes they made were possibly the ticket....for me .(I have my IV now and it is kinda in the same region now...so my V is WORKING...I even use the pedal with the IV...the lower gain regions have less compression than the 2 did...although they DO generate massive levels of compression in the later stages of the IV). Sorry to hear your amp gave up the ghost...probably for the best....have a good one!!!
 
DECEMBER said:
Ashly PQX 572, a rackmount 2-channel 7-band. I patch out 1 -> in 2, making it a 1-channel 14-band. 4 are semi-parametric, 10 are fully parametric.
I also have a Source Audio EQ2. 2-channels of 10-band fully parametric plus high & low shelving. Channels can be stacked in series to make it 20 bands. It's digital but has presets. I use the Ashly set where it is, then the presets on the EQ2 to make modifications to suit each amp channel/voicing.
The used Ashly cost the same as the 3-band Empress pedal. 4x as much EQ.
Click to expand...
I use an Ashly gqx3102...and am lusting after the eq2...is it worth it? (anyone have experience with the eniqma..its one I would LOVE to know more about...parametric and pultec?)
 
timothymartin220 said:
I use an Ashly gqx3102...and am lusting after the eq2...is it worth it? (anyone have experience with the eniqma..its one I would LOVE to know more about...parametric and pultec?)
Click to expand...
The EQ2 is great, if you don't mind it making your signal digital. The convenience of presets is extremely useful. With 30 knobs on an analog parametric EQ, it's practically impossible to get the same sound twice.
EQ2 has to be connected to a computer/phone app in order to be fully parametric, otherwise its default setting is a graphic EQ with fixed bandwidths at 1.0 and fixed frequencies. You need the app to change the frequencies and bandwidths (Q). HPF/LPF and shelving is nice. Plus an adjustable noise gate and a fixed limiter that has no adjustable parameters. Options to run the bands in series or parallel (which can make a very big difference) and to "scale Q with gain", so after you dial in a preset, there are 4 variations you can get of it
2 channels, so it can be used in a true stereo rig where each amp needs different EQ. Or you can run ch1 in front of the amp and ch2 in the loop. Or cascade the channels for a 20 band single channel.
It can be found used for ~$200.
I use a 2-channel 31-band graphic EQ in my stereo bass amps' FX loops, but it didn't cut it for guitar for me. Especially with high gain, I need the adjustable frequency and bandwidth to target specific frequencies with very narrow bandwidths (i.e. 2160Hz), to tame those harsh high-frequency overtones without darkening the whole high end. And narrow bandwidth cuts to several mid frequencies to balance the mids without scooping out the whole midrange. The fixed bandwidths of graphic EQ are too wide and cutting just one mid frequency with it is enough to scoop out a big chunk and make that hi-fi sound.
https://www.gfisystem.com/enieqma
That Enieqma pedal looks ok, but it's only 5 bands. And I'd guess it costs ~$400 (just checked and it is indeed $399). It looks like you can stack 2 modes to get 10 bands, but it's not very clear on that... do you lose stereo when you stack 2 channels?
It's also digital, so the only reason I'd favor it over the EQ2 is if I really couldn't use the app with the EQ2. Looks like Enieqma is parametric without needing an app. But 5 bands isn't enough for me. I use 7 bands minimum, ideally 8 or 9.
Parametric EQ is like precise surgery, while graphic EQ is more like chopping at your tone with an axe.
 
Thanks for the info...seriously on point and exactly what I wanted to know..Thank you very much!!! The Eniqma looks like you can stack everything...you can stack the two 5 bands together for 10 band then then drop a pulltec in line with it ()supposedly a ton of configurations including the tone stacks from all the big hitters..MArshall Mesa..Fender...and drop a cabsim filter on top of all that from what I am seeing..it looked the most flexible of the options..but brand new and I have not met anyone thats tried it)
 
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timothymartin220 said:
I wanted to come and post this....I was an early user of Mark amps and am self taught, so this left my education lacking in certain areas. I have for years had issues with the later Marks losing that "MARK" thing...and never got a satisfactory answer about how to fix it so it sounded and felt like a Studio pre or Mark 2 (that low gain GROWL AND SNARL)....then I am messing with my V the other day and have for about a year had it on the edge of compression...I spun it up and WOW>>>THERE IS WHAT WAS MISSING>>>OINLY IT WAS IN THE WRONG GAIN RANGE>>>seems earlier marks had MASSIVE COMPRESSION in the lead channel even when clean....put a compressor in my line after my guitar...and there it is...THAT MARK TONE>>>>it fills in the fron tend..I cant describe...but if you arent gaining the same signal..you wont get the same sound as an earlier mark and they changed to onset of compression in those amps. Stick a compressor in after your guitar and get that signal tighter and see if you dont get that low gain scream earlier marks were famous for. (Yes...a me issue...but SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE SAID HEY IDIOT>>THIS IS A DIFFERENCE)
Click to expand...
What compressor are you using?
 
timothymartin220 said:
I thought I would mention it to you...I know you had the same issues...or similar issues...I am thinking...and reading...there were massive changes around 2010..mine was 2017...so a pedal and the changes they made were possibly the ticket....for me .(I have my IV now and it is kinda in the same region now...so my V is WORKING...I even use the pedal with the IV...the lower gain regions have less compression than the 2 did...although they DO generate massive levels of compression in the later stages of the IV). Sorry to hear your amp gave up the ghost...probably for the best....have a good one!!!
Click to expand...
It was give or take when comparing the two. Mark IVb to the Mark V. I much preferred the full separation between the three channels.

As for the V taking a nose dive, CH3 is nothing but feedback that ramps up, no sound from the guitar, just noise, Preamp tube changes did not fix it either. Could be a bad or leaking DC blocking cap. Hard to say. CH1 and CH2 are fine. I will fix it sooner or later. If I can resolve the ice pick at the same time, even better. That is all in the preamp as it seems. I found that out early on when slaving into the Roadster, at least that ruled out the Simul-class power section. Maybe this winter I may look into things when I have more time on hand.
 
Ascendance said:
What compressor are you using?
Click to expand...
Right now I am using A Maestro Arcas comp/sustainer at the beginning of my signal chain...I am waiting on a Keeley Comp Plus, I just sold a TC electronics Rack unit I used to use for all this so had to go pedal (and specific location is working mine...dead in front..any other place and I lose something I am looking for???) Used to use it in the loop because of the unit I had to do was rack and only in my loop...so up front is a new experiment for me also...ahhh the perils of being self taught...NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT **** LIKE THIS>>>>LOL..I wasnt a chicken picker so never thought to put a comp up front????
 
Last edited:
bandit2013 said:
It was give or take when comparing the two. Mark IVb to the Mark V. I much preferred the full separation between the three channels.

As for the V taking a nose dive, CH3 is nothing but feedback that ramps up, no sound from the guitar, just noise, Preamp tube changes did not fix it either. Could be a bad or leaking DC blocking cap. Hard to say. CH1 and CH2 are fine. I will fix it sooner or later. If I can resolve the ice pick at the same time, even better. That is all in the preamp as it seems. I found that out early on when slaving into the Roadster, at least that ruled out the Simul-class power section. Maybe this winter I may look into things when I have more time on hand.
Click to expand...
Huh...i was doing a tube change and had the icepick reared its ugly head with me (first time too..I had NEVER had it with my V)...power tubes caused it and changing them fixed it on mine?????
 
I know the ICE is in the preamp. All three channels too. Tweed, Edge, and all voices of CH3. It sounds like breaking glass inside your ear drum. It could be GEQ related, which I believe to be the case. This is what the output looked like on the send jack with a 750Hz sinusoid signal on the front end at 700mV. The green trace is the output. Note the postive sharp peaks on the leading edge of the distorted wave form. the negative signal looks correct, not flat, has some harmonic content and no sharp edges. I had assumed it was V4B crapping out or not behaving properly but it could also be V5A since the phase changes when it passes through a gain stage. Not sure on the phase change of the GEQ circuit (it was turned off but the differential amp is still used to make the FX send signal on its final transistor stage). That is ice pick. What throws me off is the decay rate practically do zero after the first impulse. Look more like a cap discharge curve. The Boss pedal was used in its bypass mode. Also, it can handle the line level signals as I did the same thing with the TC50. IT was also one of the pedals that did not suck in the Mark V90. Figured it was ok to have that in the circuit as I did not want the cable unloaded.

20171125_152552.jpg


20171125_152552 (2)_LI.jpg


JP2C under the same conditions looks normal to me. It is an asymmetrical distortion. the positive transition has more of a square shape but the edges are rounded indicating a roll off of upper harmonics. There is some ripple in that as well which is related to the generated harmonics. The only difference, the Send signal does not pass through the GEQ circuit with the JP2C, it is a tube driven circuit. GEQ runs after the FX loop. I will have to look into things a bit deeper. Something must have crapped out in the GEQ or is not properly soldered in the Mark V90. It never sounded good from the start, first thought the ICE was from the power section, sure it was overheating and eating power tubes. I was sort of in a desperate time when I got that amp in the first place. Lets just say I was going through a major change in my life that was difficult to deal with.

20171126_122349.jpg


The clean channel has a much higher output level than the gain channels. No compression or distortion. Everything was at noon except for the channel masters, those were dialed out. Did much the same with the V, but had to run the volumes up as they are in front of the FX loop. the global volume was dialed out. Nothing worse than hearing a single frequency through a speaker. Not very appealing even when distorted.

20171126_122244.jpg
 
timothymartin220 said:
Right now I am using A Maestro Arcas comp/sustainer at the beginning of my signal chain...I am waiting on a Keeley Comp Plus, I just sold a TC electronics Rack unit I used to use for all this so had to go pedal (and specific location is working mine...dead in front..any other place and I lose something I am looking for???) Used to use it in the loop because of the unit I had to do was rack and only in my loop...so up front is a new experiment for me also...ahhh the perils of being self taught...NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT **** LIKE THIS>>>>LOL..I wasnt a chicken picker so never thought to put a comp up front????
Click to expand...
I would be curious if a compressor would work in the FX loop. I assume it would have to be line level compliant but may also cut some frequencies out. Probably not a good I ideal. So the compressor/sustainer is not the same thing as a compressor/limiter as you would find for use in a mixdown processing. You can get that in a pedal for bass. Not sure it would be useful for guitar. Also it is used on the front end not in the loop. I am sure it could work in the FX loop. Will have to try it and see what happens.

I also use a compressor/limiter on the front end of my Mesa TT800 Bass rig. A bit different than a compressor/sustainer. Since it runs a Class D power section, it does not sound good if that clips. More of an issue with active bass gear (18V). The Bass amp does have preamp tubes in it. I swapped out the Tung Sol in favor of the RFT 12AT7 and the JAN/Phillips 12AT7. They sound better and bring in a bit more distorted character. I have tried the Strymon OB.1 compressor, Wampler ego and such. Sure it worked better with the actives turned off but did not do what I needed when the signal level was stronger with the preamp on the guitar turned on.

20210613_143420.jpg


20210602_172137.jpg
 
bandit2013 said:
I would be curious if a compressor would work in the FX loop. I assume it would have to be line level compliant but may also cut some frequencies out. Probably not a good I ideal. So the compressor/sustainer is not the same thing as a compressor/limiter as you would find for use in a mixdown processing. You can get that in a pedal for bass. Not sure it would be useful for guitar. Also it is used on the front end not in the loop. I am sure it could work in the FX loop. Will have to try it and see what happens.

I also use a compressor/limiter on the front end of my Mesa TT800 Bass rig. A bit different than a compressor/sustainer. Since it runs a Class D power section, it does not sound good if that clips. More of an issue with active bass gear (18V). The Bass amp does have preamp tubes in it. I swapped out the Tung Sol in favor of the RFT 12AT7 and the JAN/Phillips 12AT7. They sound better and bring in a bit more distorted character. I have tried the Strymon OB.1 compressor, Wampler ego and such. Sure it worked better with the actives turned off but did not do what I needed when the signal level was stronger with the preamp on the guitar turned on.

View attachment 4569
I used to have one in my loop for years and frankly never noticed this kind of difference with it engaged...but I really was limited to , it makes it sustain longer and I can do better hammer ons...so never really experimented with it much.. I watched some videos and experimented here with drive before and drive after and REALLY get better results for my setup with this first...at least as far as this discussion (ie thickening the later Mark to sound like the more compressed earlier ones)..although when my Keeley comes I do want that one first and the one I am using now later...but my loop and effects are stereo...so I CANNOT get one run proper..unless I run two pedals. or get a stereo unit...do after effects...because using a compressor kinda post loop and after chorus REALLY makes that effect (chorus in particular) shine!!!!(I could put one in the loop but it would have to be pre effects and after eq, dont really think this is the best place to put it)
Click to expand...
 

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