Y-Cable - splitter help

[TOOLGUY]

I have been running a y-splitter cable into my 2101 and my pre.
I am using cut down short cables (6 inch) and good connectors but can still hear some slight signal loss.

Have been looking for some ideas on line splitters but don't want to spend too much on a simple splitter. I saw the lehle p-split but don't understand why or how a transformer that is not powered helps with your signal strength.. (maybe it's for the phase split option?).

I would guess I need some sort of active splitter but... I have a older Rane sm26 that I tried and it not only adds a ton of hiss it sucks the tone right out of the line (worse than the y-cable).
So what is out there to split one line "in" into two out that is cheap (100 or less) and won't kill my tone?
Thanks for any help.

 

[elvis]

It may be the additional loading of a second input stage. First check the cable itself. Run just one half of the Y, then the other half, to see if it is OK when it is not splitting. If it's OK (no signal loss vs. a non-Y cable), now see if it's one input stage or the other. Try running into just one of the 2 (preamp or 2101), then the other. Both OK? Now try both.

If one or the other has signal loss, or both together, then try a buffer. It is likely that your preamp in parallel with the 2101 has a small enough parallel impedance to cause loss. You should be able to get a buffer pretty cheap. You want the buffer to have a high input impedance (500k or more) and low output impedance (1k or less).

Transformers isolate the signal (to get rid of ground loops). They can also transform the impedance if they are not 1:1. However, they will also transform signal level. A 2:1 transformer will reduce the output level by 6dB, and increase the apparent impedance by a factor of 4.

 

[TOOLGUY]

Wow,informative post thanks.

I have been reading that just the act of splitting the signal with a y cable is a big no no for guitar. When I tried it and I lost some tone I assumed...ok well what has been said is true so that's when I went looking for a splitter.

Now I am pretty handy with a soldering iron and I see that a buffer circuit looks easy to fab up. Guess I will give it a shot this week.
Thanks for the help.

 

[RectoStudioGuy]

I use the Lehle P-Split w/ a great amount of success and would recomend it to anyone looking for a simple solution to splitting the signal between two amps. Just remember there's no switching.

 

[steve_k]

There are not many options for splitting amps effectively on the market. The post above nails it with the impedance matching. O course ground loops will always be there and the ugly phasing issues. When I am just experimenting in the man cave, I use a Lehle P-Split. It has a ground lift and phase selector and is quiet, when using my Mark III, Mark IV or Triaxis set ups.

If you really want to step up into the high end splitting market, check out Little Labs. I bought a PCP Distro (http://www.littlelabs.com/pcp.html) and it is the absolute finest piece of kit I own, other than the amps. It is a 2 in 3 (or 4 out with DI) out splitter, rack mountable and it has impedance matching level controls for each output, which takes care of the matching issues. Of course, the isolation transformers are deathly quiet and phase controls are on each output. Not cheap, but nothing good is.

You can always split too using the Patch Mate, GCX or RJM products, but beware of the 3 things above....Phase/Ground/Impedance. I have spent loads of time and money trying to figure this out the hard way. My normal rack is my Mesa Mark III and Triaxis/2:90 split with the PCP.

Steve

 

[TOOLGUY]

Thanks Steve. That's a nice piece of gear (just a bit too much $$ for me right now). I have had one of those years where "good deals" that I can't pass on has been falling in my lap (just picked up a NICE Jackson Kelly for $200.00) so the gear funds are now depleted.
I found a page showing how to build the Tillman fet preamp into a splitter. It's about $20.00 in parts and a bit of my time. If that falls short I will buy the Lehle unit.
Thanks for taking the time to help out.

 

[t0aj15]

Unfortunately the best way to do this does cost $. I use this:
http://www.voodoolab.com/ampselector.htm
If you download the manual you'll understand the mulitude of problems it solves for multi-amp setups, everything from eliminating ground loop hum, to balancing the input signal to multiple amps, and isolating the tuner so it's out of the signal chain.
It costs $230 but it's an EXCELLANT tool to have.

 

[ando]

What about this one?

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/LS-2/

and pretty affordable:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Boss-Ls-2-LS2-Line-selector-Pedal_W0QQitemZ330376979062QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item4cec00a276#ht_640wt_1161

does everything you say you want

 

[elvis]

I'd go with a simple buffer (you can buid an opamp or FET buffer for a few $$) and a transformer isolator like the ebtech HE-2 or NADY HE-1 (for half the price). That should work just fine. The rest are bells and whistles.

 

[ando]

I'd go with a simple buffer (you can buid an opamp or FET buffer for a few $$) and a transformer isolator like the ebtech HE-2 or NADY HE-1 (for half the price). That should work just fine. The rest are bells and whistles.

Seriously man, I think if you can't spare 58 bucks for something to complement your rig that is worth about $5,000, there is something wrong! I have no doubt at all that this Boss pedal would be sturdier, more reliable and more practical to use than anything you could whip up with a soldering iron and a tin box. I'm not against building things for myself, but there are some things that I think are more efficient to buy. Just the strong housing and level control knobs and the multiple routing options of the Boss make it a winner in my opinion. Of course there may be cheaper products that do the same thing, but I think homemade things always retain that lightweight, amateurish look about them and it is hard to know the quality of your components when they are the only brand your supplier stocks. I don't own a lot of Boss gear, but one thing I will say for them is they are super-dependable.

 

[elvis]

Ummmmm, I was taking toolguy's posts into account:

1. He's good with a soldering iron
2. He's low on cash

While the bells and whistles may be nice, and worth the money to you, sometimes, despite our best efforts to the contrary, we are out of cash. I have $10k worth of gear, but it's stuff I've scraped for over a number of years. Can I afford a $58 box today? Not really. I also have a mortgage and a family to feed.

You must chill! You must chill!

 

[ando]

Ummmmm, I was taking toolguy's posts into account:

1. He's good with a soldering iron
2. He's low on cash

While the bells and whistles may be nice, and worth the money to you, sometimes, despite our best efforts to the contrary, we are out of cash. I have $10k worth of gear, but it's stuff I've scraped for over a number of years. Can I afford a $58 box today? Not really. I also have a mortgage and a family to feed.

You must chill! You must chill!

Read my posts dude, it was all chilled. You need to take your own advice cos you're getting a little excited... :wink:

 

[elvis]

Actually that was a reference to "Say Anything" (1989 movie, John Cusack).

 

[ando]

Actually that was a reference to "Say Anything" (1989 movie, John Cusack).

Hmm, that one went right over my head, I'm afraid. Cusack must have been just a kid in 1989. Great actor, must check it out.

 

[TOOLGUY]

I built this last night.
http://www.muzique.com/lab/splitter.htm

It does work (good)... Was cheap to build but I must say I am a bit worried about using it. Not sure why.
Might just need to get over the "it can't be good because it was cheap" thing. :wink:

 

[TOOLGUY]

That boss unit is nice.
The thing is that I need both preamps to be input loaded (on) at the same time. I am not sure if the boss will do a and b on at the same time (downloading the manual now).
I have not read ANY bad reviews on the Lehle unit.
I assume you are paying all that $$ for those little transformers in there as there is not much else inside that box (passive).

I have been using a diy preamp output switcher 4 in 2 out (made from a 4pdt relay and a simple pnp trans. switch) for a month now with no ill effects. I just worry more about what I am putting into the inputs for whatever reason...

 

[ando]

That boss unit is nice.
The thing is that I need both preamps to be input loaded (on) at the same time. I am not sure if the boss will do a and b on at the same time (downloading the manual now)

Yes, the Boss can do quite a range of routing options - one of them is having both on at the same time. Hopefully it can do exactly what you need.

 

[elvis]

Looks good! I'd use it. Feel free to build one for me! :wink:

 

[elvis]

Ando, yeah he really was a kid in that. Great actor then as well. Interestingly, Joan Cusack plays his sister in the movie.