Why so much DIRT hate?

[papersoul]

Everywhere I go, The Gear Page, Rig Talk......everyone talks about how the ED kills for great cleans but the distortion leaves a lot to be desired. HUH? Not sure where this comes from, I the Electra Dyne is a wonderful machine for gain or clean!? Why the hate?

 

[J.J]

I'd guess most of those "experts" don't own an ED or want to play metal. Your probably going to get a slightly biased view around here though :lol:

The ED is not much like many of the other modern amps around and is probably mis-understood by a great many.

 

[YellowJacket]

Gosh, I wrote a huge essay to reply to this thread and then the forum decided the thread had disappeared. =-(
The TL;DR version of what I said is this:
The Blues / Crunch / 'High Gain' tones sound amazing on this amp. People who hate it have either smoked too much crack or they play metal exclusively.
I also talked about the amp being sensitive to guitars and pickups and how crappy guitars = crappy tone.
Oh, and you need to have the right cab and speakers for this thing.

... :?

 

[screamingdaisy]

A stock JCM800 with no boost pedal is pretty underwelming to a lot of people too.

In the end it all depends on what you're after.

 

[papersoul]

A lot of the guys I notice hating on the Electradyne are Mark V players.....the gain is so much better on the V!
I am going to have the money for the Mark V so I am tempted but I hate tweaking amps! LOL.

Yellow, this is my set up before getting the Electradyne:

Bogner 20th Shiva
PWE Event Horizon
LP Standard with Wolftone pickups
LP Standard with Gibson HB pickups
Fender American strat stock and sounds killer
1994 PRS CE-22 with Dragons
1989 Gibson SG with Gibson HB pickups
Stone Age 212C with WGS Invaders
Bogner 212OS with V30s (love this cab)
THD 212 with WGS ET65/Reaper 50

 

[J.J]

I chose the ED over a Mark V because I couldn't get the tones I wanted from the MKV channel 3. I thought it was going to be exactly what I wanted, but was really disapointed. I know a few other guys that have a similar opinion. Otherwise channel 1 and 2 I loved.

It all does really show that everyone likes different things.

 

[screamingdaisy]

A lot of the guys I notice hating on the Electradyne are Mark V players.....the gain is so much better on the V!
I am going to have the money for the Mark V so I am tempted but I hate tweaking amps! LOL.

I wouldn't consider the Mark V's gain "better" so much as "different".

 

[elvis]

I would guess that a lot of people want more gain, which that Marks are good at. For those who can actually play, the lower gain of the Dyne is great... :lol: :lol: :lol:

In truth, I add gain with an OD808 and a BBPre. Sometimes we all like more. I also have a MR for those days. :twisted:

 

[YellowJacket]

I wouldn't consider the Mark V's gain "better" so much as "different".

Exactly. The Electra Dyne's gain is complex and really crunchy, sounding a lot like the blend of preamp and power amp. It also FEELS a lot like a blend of preamp and poweramp gain, but it all comes from the preamp. The Mark V is much more 'grainy' and 'defined' sounding. TONNES of gain and bite -even more than a Dual Rectifier as far as I could tell- all topped off with this wonderful harmonic sheen. And the lead tone is thick, round, and chewy with sustain for days! They're probably one of the best amps ever made for what they do, but it just doesn't grab me in the least.

With a fairly hot contemporary humbucker, the Electra Dyne spews fire on Vintage Hi. I LOVE it!

A lot of the guys I notice hating on the Electradyne are Mark V players.....the gain is so much better on the V!
I am going to have the money for the Mark V so I am tempted but I hate tweaking amps! LOL.

Mark V is the quintessential hotrod american tone while an Electra Dyne is very British. I could see a vintage marshall owner getting along with a 'Dyne really well. I tried the Mark V and I grabbed a 'Dyne. These amps are about as opposite as you can get while still both being Mesas.

Yellow, this is my set up before getting the Electradyne:

Bogner 20th Shiva
PWE Event Horizon
LP Standard with Wolftone pickups
LP Standard with Gibson HB pickups
Fender American strat stock and sounds killer
1994 PRS CE-22 with Dragons
1989 Gibson SG with Gibson HB pickups
Stone Age 212C with WGS Invaders
Bogner 212OS with V30s (love this cab)
THD 212 with WGS ET65/Reaper 50

The guy I got my 'Dyne head off of has owned a couple of Shivas. He actually sold them and got a Mark V which he loves but that is a different story. He said the Shiva was in the same 'ballpark' as the Electra Dyne for tone and styles but ultimately, the feel and voice were different. He complained about the feel of the Electra Dyne, saying it was not stiff or firm enough. Personally, I love how elastic and resilient the clean channel is. I also think the feel on the dirt channels is perfect, but this is just my opinion.

 

[papersoul]

Right now I have yet to find to better sounding amps than the 20th Shiva and PWE Event Horizon, but the Electradyne I would be happy to ad to that list. I also think the Rectoverb belongs on that list of mine. The Mark V was great when I played it, but the Rectoverb edged it out as being thicker and more harmonically rich.

I never hear amps as American or British, just good or bad, LOL.

 

[screamingdaisy]

He said the Shiva was in the same 'ballpark' as the Electra Dyne for tone and styles but ultimately, the feel and voice were different. He complained about the feel of the Electra Dyne, saying it was not stiff or firm enough. Personally, I love how elastic and resilient the clean channel is. I also think the feel on the dirt channels is perfect, but this is just my opinion.

Mesa (or people close to Mesa) must have felt the same. One of the first things I read about the Royal-Atlantic prior to it's release was that it was stiffer than the ED with a more aggressive sounding power section.

Personally, I love the softer, rounder response of the ED. It's got a nice chunk to it that the more modern sounding Mark V doesn't have. To me, it's like a mid-gain Dual Recto in the way it responds to my pick attack.

Regarding the ED's gain: I know I have seen some people complain that the ED's don't have enough gain in Vintage Hi. I think they were expecting that it'd be a Clean/Crunch/Lead amp. For myself, I've found it's more of a Clean/Soft Crunch/Hard Crunch amp that likes Tube Screamers.

 

[hunter]

I wouldn't understand why anyone would dislike either clean or dirt on this amp. But different things to different folks I guess. I tend to dislike Diezels, because they are very HiFi and stiff, but I did like their Schmidt, because it was more 3D and organic than VH4 or Herbert. Maybe it's the same with the ED, it is just different from what people expect from Mesa.

On most clips I hear from Rectos or MkVs, the cleans are thin and lifeless and the overdrive sounds like a pedal to me (Ok not on a good Recto maybe).

The ED does indeed not have enough gain for thos people that like endless sustain at low volumes. Unless you turn it up that is. Or you hit it with a good quality hotter signal up front, then it goes into Mk-Lead territory too.

 

[papersoul]

First and foremost I prefer simple amps. The ED is simple. I also like responsive and dynamic amps, I like using my guitar's volume.

Do you guys find the ED is more low mids or high mids? I find it british but more of the thick, low mids variety....more like an old Plexi, I love that about it! At low volumes I can just use a boost pedal.

I also don't find it modern or vintage.....never understood that argument. I can make it sound vintage or modern, dark, heavy or bright and clear.

Listen to some of the massive sounding Alice in Chains tones guys are getting with the ED, it can do anything.

 

[YellowJacket]

The Electra Dyne can pretty much do anything except those raunchy modern metal tones, thinking of Dual Rectifier Modern Mode type rhythm tones. But I think for a 'mesa' player, it would be thought of as being more vintage.

 

[elvis]

My take on all of this is that I think a lot of people have trouble with only one set of knobs. They don't take the time, or don't have the ability, to tweek the amp for the best compromise between clean and dirty, and they get either clean they don't like or vintage they don't like.

I also think that most people struggle to dial Mesa amps at all. If you use the tone controls in the same way you use your Marshall, Fender, Diezel, whatever, you're never going to get there. I know I struggled with that on every Mesa I've owned.

And then even in the best circumstances, the Dyne is not for everyone. I think I've written more than once that I don't care if everyone but me hates the Dyne, or even if they discontinue it. I have mine and I'm happy. I can't wait to see what they come out with next.

 

[papersoul]

Have any of you with the Electradyne, had a chance to play the Royal Atlantic?
I am still considering the Royal, only because I need good tones at all volumes although I think the ED sounds bigger and wider, and less like my Bogner Shiva.

 

[YellowJacket]

My take on all of this is that I think a lot of people have trouble with only one set of knobs. They don't take the time, or don't have the ability, to tweek the amp for the best compromise between clean and dirty, and they get either clean they don't like or vintage they don't like.

I also think that most people struggle to dial Mesa amps at all. If you use the tone controls in the same way you use your Marshall, Fender, Diezel, whatever, you're never going to get there. I know I struggled with that on every Mesa I've owned.

And then even in the best circumstances, the Dyne is not for everyone. I think I've written more than once that I don't care if everyone but me hates the Dyne, or even if they discontinue it. I have mine and I'm happy. I can't wait to see what they come out with next.

Well, you're not the only one who likes it. I've been seduced by it! XD My approach is to dial in the dirt tone the way I want and then tweak it slightly to make the clean work. I also set up my pickups for optimal response from both channels.

Have any of you with the Electradyne, had a chance to play the Royal Atlantic?
I am still considering the Royal, only because I need good tones at all volumes although I think the ED sounds bigger and wider, and less like my Bogner Shiva.

I haven't bothered playing the Royal Atlantic. I figure I don't need any more gas right now and I love my Electra Dyne. Honestly, the 27" 1 x 12 is pretty much the best format for a huge wide tone at low 'ish' volumes. Definitely good for any context which involves a drummer!!!

 

[papersoul]

I just spent a lot on a Stone Age 212C with WGS Invaders! I am really excited to hear it with an ED.

 

[YellowJacket]

I bet it will kick butt!! Keep us posted.

I'm teaching today and we had a nice little blues jam session here. Good fun was had by all!!!

 

[papersoul]

I find the Electradyne stunning and with an OD pedal, will cover any style! I have guys who have replaced Triple Rectifiers with the ED. The Barber burn, Xotic BB, EP and Sonic Edge J&J work amazingly well with the ED. The amp reminds me of a 70s Marshall JMP with a cleaner power section. With an OD it will cover Alice in Chains and Tool type tones. And, it is so simple. I am all about simple these days, I want to play and not tweak. I enjoy its purity in tone and biggness, harmonic richness and friendliness to pedals! I would use my modded Boss EQ pedal for a solo boost so I am ok with it not having a solo boost. Essentially with an OD and EQ in the loop it is crazy versatile.

Thought about getting a Royal Atlantic but the older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity.

I did consider an amp that was one channel that required working your volume knob to get.clean tones, but we cover some songs that need super Fender type clean.