Which Tubes Should I buy for Triple Recto??

[Acesulfame]

Hi, I've never replaced the tubes in my Triple Rectifier and am a little overwhelmed and confused! The tone I'm after is a heavy high-gain metal tone so I'm guessing I want to use 6L6s. Could anyone give me some advice on selecting the right tubes for the job? I'm looking to replace all the tubes.

Many Thanks,

Andy

 

[JW123]

Andy for power tubes I would recomend going back with Mesa's. If you want a little variation in sound and your current tubes are ok, you might want to try a set of EL34s. They will lean a little more to a Marshall sound. Its not a huge difference but it will give you a little different sizzle. I think its good to have a spare set of tubes, both power and preamp, plus a box of fuses to have in case you ever have a problem. If you go to EL 34s remember to change the switch in the back of the amp.

Personally I dont hear a big difference in brands of tubes when it comes to power tubes. If you want to experiment get a couple of different 12AX7 and play with the V1 position. This tube does more to change the tone of the amp than all the rest put together in my opinion.

Ive got boxes of tubes NOSs and all kinds of stuff people recomended thru the years and I would warn you not to get to worried about it. Just make sure you have some decent tubes in there and always have spares. It can cost a lot of money if you start chasing some elusive tone. I personally think that the main thing to your sound is your guitar and the way you handle the guitar. An amp is simply an amplification device and theres only about a 5% variation in tone that you will hear in the map no matter what you do.

Good Luck and have Fun

 

[JW123]

Andy for the record I have a pair of YellowJackets with EL 84s and a Quartet of EL 34s in my Triple. Im not sure on preamp tubes Im always moving them around. I like El 34s more than 6L6s. The 34s are a little less muddy, they dont have as much headroom on clean, and they have a different tone in the mids to upper highs than the 6L6s. My sound on the modern channel is a brown sound kinda Van Halen 1 meets GnR Slash sound. I play in a hard rock cover band and that describes my basic sound. I think from your post you may be looking for something a little heavier than that.

 

[Acesulfame]

Thanks for those great replies guys! Yeah, I want to get a pretty decent heavy tone but I am happy with the one I've got, was just making sure I buy the right thing, as you know the music industry is not forgiving money-wise! I've never really given much thought to the tubes before and now that they need replacing I was just a bit lost that's all.

I've found a decent site where I can purchase them. What do you think to me getting these?

-http://www.thomann.de/gb/mesa_boogie_5u4gb_roehre.htm (I'm guessing I will need three of these for the triple rec)

-http://www.thomann.de/gb/mesa_boogie_12ax7_wxt.htm

Is the tube on the second link a "power tube"? I know I'm a complete noob at this...

 

[andershoeg]

Nope, 12AX7 tubes are pre-amp tubes.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

I'd highy recomend TAD 6L6GC for your power tubes. Best sounding 6L6 out there right now IMO. For preamp tubes, if you are just wanting readily available new production tubes I'd go with a mixture of Electro Harmonix, TungSol, Chinese and a Sovtek LPS. Electro harmonix in V1, TungSol V2, Chinese in V3 and V4 cathode follower possitions and a Sovtek LPS in the V5. That's what I'd go wih unless you want to really pimp your preamp out with vintage tubes. Preamp tubes make a HELL of a lot more than a measly 5% change in tone. Try it for yourself and see.

 

[JW123]

I'd highy recomend TAD 6L6GC for your power tubes. Best sounding 6L6 out there right now IMO. For preamp tubes, if you are just wanting readily available new production tubes I'd go with a mixture of Electro Harmonix, TungSol, Chinese and a Sovtek LPS. Electro harmonix in V1, TungSol V2, Chinese in V3 and V4 cathode follower possitions and a Sovtek LPS in the V5. That's what I'd go wih unless you want to really pimp your preamp out with vintage tubes. Preamp tubes make a HELL of a lot more than a measly 5% change in tone. Try it for yourself and see.

Sorry but when I change tubes, once I get thru tweaking the map there is less than 5% difference in my sound. I guess thats because years of experience has taught me how to achieve the tone that I want. And better yet to realize when Ive reached it.

I hate these post where people like you get on here recomending tube combinations when you really have no clue what the original poster is looking for. You are just proud of your combination of tubes and after buying them and spending the time to change them around Im sure you hear some difference that justifies all the money, time and work you went thru.

I personally feel that as long as I have decent tubes in that they are functioning as they should that I can dial in my desired tone to within 5% of any tube combo I can come up with. Ive spent $1000 on tubes thru the years and was like many foled into believing there was some HOLY GRAIL sound out there. At this point in life I beg to differ.

Your guitar and the way you play the guitar, dynamics and your pickups and their settings are going to have a lot more to do with your sound than the tubes.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

^^^^^^^^^


I just recommended what i thought was a good sounding combo of tubes. If you don't like it then that's fine....I didn't post it for you to begin with. He asked so I gave a recommendation....live with it. I do believe, though, that more people on here will agree that tubes will make or break the tone of an amp than not. I don't know what you consider "years of experience" but i have 20 years under my belt playing electric guitar so I like to think I have something to offer. What I hate is posts like yours replying to mine when I did EXACTLY what the thread starter asked for. If you think your the only person in the world with a valid opinion you are sorely mistaken. Deal with it.

 

[R_ADKINS80]

Furthermore......if you bothered to read his entire post......he specifically stated he wants a heavy high gain metal tone. The tubes i recommended will more than fit that bill IMO.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I hate to be a downer, but I too agree that the whole tube nonsense is not worth the hassle.

I find a tube that is reliable, and gets my rectifier kicking butt. Mesas in the preamp, and Ruby's in the power amp (to Mesa spec, apparently the same tubes, but cheaper ).

I went through the tube fad, like most of us here. And after all of it, that is all I consider it. I shelled out a bunch of money for small changes, that after EQing, ended up mattering little if any. It's a hard thing to admit, but all the glorious reviews I would post ended up being driven more by my want to justify the money spent than THAT big of an improvement. Some tubes were good, but honestly, NEVER worth the price tag. I wouldn't be surprised if most reviews you read are from a similar agenda.

If anyone is looking at a tonal change/improvement, my opinion is that SPEAKERS make a MUCH bigger difference. That is a different opinion for another thread though. This is if we're talking about really reshaping your tone.

But, with tubes, find something reliable that is fairly priced. Your rectifier will still roar like it always has!

Another thing for you guys...if the amp doesn't work for you, don't worry about tubes, etc. TRY A DIFFERENT AMP!!! There are so many choices out there that will give you tonal variety. Tube swaps will not change the amp you have...it's still a Mesa, or a Marshall, etc.

I'm going to stop my rant right now....I just wish more guys would follow this. Forums built GAS for things that honestly are most of the time not warranted. Not too long ago, I finally found MY perfect amp, and MY perfect speakers, and I don't tweak anymore. I drop in working tubes, string up with d'addarios, and rock. It's a great feeling to enjoy your gear rather than constantly thinking of how to change it. More people should try it :wink:

Best of luck!

Eric

 

[Acesulfame]

Cheers for the responses again guys. It's more just wanting to know more about which type of tubes are compatable with my amp and which type I'll to get as I'm completely new to this. So far I've gathered that the power tubes are the three big ones and the pre-amp tubes are the smaller ones...lol! I'm checking those Ruby tubes and they seem to be a lot cheaper than the Mesa ones...

Could someone please explain to me about the 6L6/EL34 tubes. I know that you have to have the switch enabled accordingly with the tubes you use, but are the 6L6/EL34 tubes just the power ones or does it apply to all tubes?

At the moment I'm looking at getting a batch of Mesa 12AX7s for pre-amps and three new 5U4GBs for power tubes. I'm just not sure where these tubes fall into the 6L6/EL34 catagories...

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Preamp tubes in your Mesa are a type called 12AX7. There are others types, but this is by far the most common IMO. Your amp takes 5 of these, and they are the small tubes further into the head.

Next, you have the power tubes...that have numerous types, of which 6L6 and EL-34 seem to be the most common. Others include KT-77s, KT-88s, 5880s, etc. 6L6s are generally kept with the 'American' tones....fenders, etc....big bottom, and a good treble. EL-34s gravitate more to the 'British' tones, Marshall as you would guess....A LOT of barking mids, a slightly tighter bottom end (recessed ofcourse), and more sizzle in the treble. The Mesa allows you to use either or of the power tubes with the flip of a switch....it slightly reworks the characteristics of the amp, but if you like the Mesa tone, I would not even consider venturing from 6L6s for a moment. Obviously, you can infer that the switch is for the power section only.

Finally, you have the rectifier tubes, which consist of 5U4GBs, 5U4Gs, GZ34s, and many more. I'd stick with 5U4GBs here aswell, just find a reliable one at a good price.

Hope that helps!

Eric

 

[JW123]

Ace,

The 5u4gb tubes are rectifier tubes. These may not need replacing and I wouldnt unless something was wrong with one. For a heavier tone you might want to switch the head to Silicon Rectifier which eliminates these all together. These tubes just supply voltage so they do not shape the tone of the amp.

At least one person on here was in agreement with me. The tube quest is highly overrated. For the record Im 46 yrs old and have been playing actively since I was 12. Thru out the period Ive owned most of the tube amps that everyone raves about. I have spent lots of money on tubes and I will say again it is not going to make that big of a difference in your tone. I stick by that. A triple rectifier has a lot of tubes in it and it gets quite expensive to change all those tubes. I personally prefer the Mesa Power tubes 6L6s,EL 34s. I know they are biased correctly for the amp. I can hear a difference between a 6L6 and a EL 34, when I load my Triple with Yellow Jackets with EL 84s I hear a further difference. Once I dial in the eq, and play with the gain a little in the end I have pretty much the same tone. Theres nothing wrong with pursuing tones if you have the money to spend. Theres hundreds of opinions on this baord alone about tubes and their effects on your tone, but it is very minimal.

If you want to play with tubes I would buy 4-5 Mesa 12 AX7 and then buy maybe 4-5 other 12 AX7 to play with. As I stated the biggest difference you will hear is in the V1 position, it is the dominant preamp tube. Try different combinations in the V1, V2, and V3 positions. I would just put Mesa's in the other positions.

I hate to recomend tubes cause as Ive said over and over again once I change tubes I change my eq and gain settings and I always wind up with the same basic tone. If you like to just leave your controls set in one position then yes a tube can make a big difference, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having controls doesnt it.

I agree witht the above that different speakers make huge differences. I have an old Laney cab with H&H speakers. Its a smaller cab and has a high endy sound all its own, with out a lot of bottom, hey I go back to the eq and add a little bass to get where I want. I bought a cheap Beringher cab with Jenson Speakers just so I wouldnt tear up other cabs, its muddy and I have to scoop the mids more than I feel I should, but once I do that it works. A year ago I happened across a Mesa 4x12 bottom with a slant front, It has V-30s in it. It is boomier than the Laney so I put a little less bass in the eq, I wind up setting the mids somewhere between the settings for the other 2 cabs.

What Im getting at here is to figure out what you really want to sound like, and then learn to eq the amp to that sound. It sounds stupid but a lot of younger players I meet want to add cheap *** eq pedals to their effects loop for leads. My response is dedicate one channel to lead and one to rythym, for lead put in more mids with the amp eq and for rythym cut it out a bit. My Mesa's never go over noon in the mid department, gains tend to end up around 1-2 oclock. If you are diming any tone controls my guess it you are over doing it.

I just hate to see someone spending a fortune on tubes when you probably are fine with what you have and just need to tweak it some more. Mesa's are finicky, but everyone Ive ever had, had a sweet spot where it just sang. My goal was always to find it!

 

[Acesulfame]

When I look at the back of my amp two of the rectifier tubes (5U4GBs) seem fine and are lit up blue, but one of them is very dim. There is just a redish glow. I'm not sure whether this has blown or whether it's just not being used as much due to the volume not being turned up very loud (for a triple rec that is). Perhaps I should just change that one tube and not the other two 5U4GBs...but definitely replace all the power and pre-amp tubes. It's annoying not really having much knowledge on this front. I've been playing guitar for about ten years but when it comes to my amp working, I guess I've just nievely expected it to lol.

 

[Silverwulf]

To me and IMO, tubes make a huge difference. Everyone has their own opinion, and no ones opinion is more valid than another. Also, it doesn't matter matter how long someone has been playing or using tube amps. Longevity on an instrument doesn't necessarily make one an expert. I've been playing basketball for 20-25 years, but it doesn't mean I'm any good at it.

I know guitarists of 30+ years that aren't as technically capable as some that have been playing for 5 years, and I know some guys that couldn't play you a single chord on any instrument but have a better tuned ear than most guitarists you'll ever meet. My point is quantity (or time you've been playing in our case) in no way automatically translates to quality (or how well you can perceive the minute details in tone). It helps, no doubt...but one doesn't equal the other. And I'm not saying anyone has good or bad ears, I'm just saying keep it all in perspective.

For me and tubes, it can definitely make or break an amp. I have some sets of tubes that make an amp virtually unplayable for me, where as others - regardless of tweaking the settings - shape the sound immediately to my liking.

 

[JW123]

Ace some of my Rectifier tubes dont glow as bright as the others.

Switch to Silicon Rectifier and see if there is a noticeable difference in tone for you. If the volume drops off significantly when you switch over you may have a rectifier problem. Ive never replaced a Rectifier tube and Ive had 3 Triples 2 Duals and A Roadster.

Once again on the tube issues some tubes arent that good and just sound bad, I consider these bad tubes whether they check out or not. If I have good functioning tubes in the head I can dial in what I want. Maybe experience means nothing to you but it does where I come from. I play in a local bar band, I am paid to play. I also get called in for gigs with other local groups. So I must know what Im doing. A couple of weeks ago I got called out at the last minute. My amp was in transport in our trailer so all I had at the house was a little Fender Squire 15, this is a little solid state amp that Ive had since the early 80s. I took it and Les Paul and a TS-9 I had sitting around and did a gig. The band was raving about my tone, out of this little amp. So yea in my case lots of years of playing makes a big difference. And also for you guys I am very anal about my tone. But depending on venues I may use a Triple Rec, a Roadster Combo, a Subway Rocket or even a POD PRO and my tone is consistent thru all these configurations. Your sig tone is a combination of guitar, the ability you possess in your hands, your ears and in the end the basic equipment you use.

Triple Recs are awesome amps. They have a certain flavor all their own. Tweak that sucker to suit your needs.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Wow! some really strong opinions here on the whole tube thing.....

I, for one, do hear a difference among various tubes. And you know?, it probably IS less than 5%! 8)

But I can hear it, none the less.....
I feel there is validity to both sides of this argument. Tone originates in the fingers....but certain amps, effects, and yes, even tubes, can enhance or detract from this.

I do think it is generally foolish to spend excess amounts of cash on all different types and brands of new, old used or NOS tubes, unless you have the means to afford it and enjoy doing it.
Most of us are better off to find a brand we like and then replace only when needed. I was fortunate enough to come across some old (and FREE) tube HI FI gear that came with a variety of the older American and European tubes.

And I'm sorry, to each his own, but I can tell a difference. 8)
However, I won't deny it could be considered subtle.

But after putting Telefunken and Amperex ax7's in v1 and v2 of my Ace and Triaxis, Mesa tubes will never go in those sockets again! Except as an emergency spare, maybe.....

I can accept that this just might be me and my opinion.
I admit it is unlikely I would have spent $50, 60 or more on some NOS Telefunkens when the quality of new production tubes is increasing daily......
But now that I have them, I'm using 'em and liking 'em a lot....

Good luck to you all

 

[Old BF Shred]

Wow! some really strong opinions here on the whole tube thing.....

I, for one, do hear a difference among various tubes. And you know?, it probably IS less than 5%! 8)

But I can hear it, none the less.....
I feel there is validity to both sides of this argument. Tone originates in the fingers....but certain amps, effects, and yes, even tubes, can enhance or detract from this.

I do think it is generally foolish to spend excess amounts of cash on all different types and brands of new, old used or NOS tubes, unless you have the means to afford it and enjoy doing it.
Most of us are better off to find a brand we like and then replace only when needed. I was fortunate enough to come across some old (and FREE) tube HI FI gear that came with a variety of the older American and European tubes.

And I'm sorry, to each his own, but I can tell a difference. 8)
However, I won't deny it could be considered subtle.

But after putting Telefunken and Amperex ax7's in v1 and v2 of my Ace and Triaxis, Mesa tubes will never go in those sockets again! Except as an emergency spare, maybe.....

I can accept that this just might be me and my opinion.
I admit it is unlikely I would have spent $50, 60 or more on some NOS Telefunkens when the quality of new production tubes is increasing daily......
But now that I have them, I'm using 'em and liking 'em a lot....

Good luck to you all

 

[R_ADKINS80]

To me, now matter how small someone might say the difference is, tubes turn a good sounding amp into a phenominal sounding amp. Stock tubes sound good in my Triple. My current tube set-up sounds phenominal.

 

[Old BF Shred]

OOPS.....wow, did I hit the "echo-repeat" button on my last post or what??

Must be that Nirubu planetoid gravitational influence or something.... :? :? :roll: :lol: :lol: