Which tubes for a Mark III? WARNING, LOTS OF QUESTIONS

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

I was thinking JJ's, but I hear alot of bad things about them. For power and pre, which tubes? I like a very tight balanced metal rhythm with smooth highs, tight lows, and warm mids and a warm jazzy clean. Also, how are SED =C= 6L6GC's or TAD 6L6GC's? Which would be better for the power, SED Winged C's or TAD's? And what tubes for the preamp for V1, V2, V3, V4, and V5? Should I just get one brand for the pre or get specifics for the preamp slots? What do the different slots do and where are they? Sorry for all the questions, i'm a n00b with tubes.

Amp is a 100 watt non-simul Mark III Red Stripe with EQ and Reverb.

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

Why won't anyone answer my ******* questions? Both threads and 0 replies

 

[Chrissmoth]

Ok - there will be others on here with far more knowledge but I'll guide you in the right direction

Each pre-amp valve (sorry I'm English I don't say tube) has two halves ie two seperate amplifying devices in the same valve

So you'll have V1a & V1b within Valve 1

From mulling over the schematic of the Mark III

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V1 The first two amplification stages - Basically makes your guitar signal big enough for the rest of the amp to deal with.

This is generally thought of as the most important pre-amp valve as it's the first one your guitar signal sees.
Any noise introduced by this valve will be amplified by all the others down the chain. This is the reason that in some amps this valve has a metal cover - this reduces rf (Radio Frequency) noise from entering the valve.

Also because the output signal of a guitar is very, very low the tiniest amount of noise produced by this valve will have much more effect at this stage. - In general people put their 'Best' valve here - If you can only afford one NOS Mullard here's where it goes. In the Mark III the tone stack is between the two stages so you could think of it as V1a is the tone stack send and V1b is the tone control return.

V1a First gain stage - before the tone controls
V1b Second gain stage - after the tone controls

You then have the option to have Lead channel on or off

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If the lead channel is selected (on) the signal goes to V3a. (I think this controls the ammount of Lead Gain) and then to V3b. I think this controls the level of Lead Master volume.

If the lead channel is off the signal bypasses V3 altogether and goes directly to V2a (your effects send and return)


V2a Effects send buffer
V2b Effects return buffer

No real Idea what diferent valves will do here??? Except if you have a very high gain valve here the signal may tend to clip when it hits your effects

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V3a Level of Lead Gain
V3b Level of Lead Master

If you want more gain from your lead channel get a higher gain valve and vice-versa

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V4a Reverb send
V4b Reverb return

My thoughts here would be that your reverb character is defined by this valve, so if you want a bright sounding reverb put in a bright sounding valve Electro-Harmonix or if you want a darker sound use a JJ
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V5 (Phase Inverter) The final push before the power valves

Because each of these sections amplifies one half of the sine wave, people try to have both halves of this valve with the same ammount of amplification (matched) otherwise, the lower half of the sine wave will be amplified more than the upper half (or vice versa) - effectively distorting the signal

V5a Positive half of sine wave
V5b Negative half of sine wave


Hope that helps some

 

[Chrissmoth]

Having re-read your post - I'd go for starting with a set of stock Mesa pre-amp valves and then purchase a selection of pre-amp valves from ebay - it never hurts to have some spares anyway

Then replace V1, one at a time, with each of your new selection to see which one sounds the best to you - remember to include the original Mesa valve in your tests as this may be the best choice anyway.

Repeat with the other valve positions

Really bare in mind that you could be there for months doing this & you might wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat fretting over whether your phase inverter is closely matched or not... :roll:

If you can't hear a difference between the stock Mesa and any of the replacements - then stop

Can't give you any advice on power amp valves as mine are all stock

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

I am now torn between these sets:

Doug from Dougs Tubes reccomended me this set

(2) Matched Pair SED 6L6GC
(1) Tung Sol 12ax7
(1) High Gain JJ
(1) Penta 12ax7
(1) Shuguang 12ax7 9th gen.
(1) Sovtek LPS 12ax7

I chose this set based on research:

(2) SED 6L6GC Matched Pair
(1) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Reissue (V1)
(1) GT 12AX7-R Standard Test (V2)
(1) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Reissue (V3)
(1) Ruby 12AX7AC5 Select Standard Test (V4)
(1) GT 12AX7-R2 Reissue Balanced Triodes (V5)

Which ones better for a Progressive Metal player looking for a very tight balanced (a little on the darker side, and relitively scooped) rhythm tone, a screaming brighter lead tone, and a very warm fat jazzy clean tone?

Thanks

 

[cscotto]

I am now torn between these sets:

Doug from Dougs Tubes reccomended me this set

(2) Matched Pair SED 6L6GC
(1) Tung Sol 12ax7
(1) High Gain JJ
(1) Penta 12ax7
(1) Shuguang 12ax7 9th gen.
(1) Sovtek LPS 12ax7

I chose this set based on research:

(2) SED 6L6GC Matched Pair
(1) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Reissue (V1)
(1) GT 12AX7-R Standard Test (V2)
(1) Tung-Sol 12AX7 Reissue (V3)
(1) Ruby 12AX7AC5 Select Standard Test (V4)
(1) GT 12AX7-R2 Reissue Balanced Triodes (V5)

Which ones better for a Progressive Metal player looking for a very tight balanced (a little on the darker side, and relitively scooped) rhythm tone, a screaming brighter lead tone, and a very warm fat jazzy clean tone?

Thanks

I had a Mark III, so I am familiar with the sound. Of the amps I have now, the Mark is closest to my Nomad 100. In the Nomad, I use SED 6L6GC. The have a balanced tone, but the bass is very strong. They are articulate. I don't think of them, at least in the Nomad, as bright, but I don't have any problems pulling harmonics out of the strings. Some people think of the SED as a vintage sounding tube. Here is a review from the Tubestore (www.tubestore.com):

Winged "C"/SED 6L6GC - Tremendous harmonic content and an overall depth in sound make these another excellent choice for the purist. They can handle solid plate voltages and are very well constructed. Consider these tubes as an excellent choice for any type of music, delivering crystal cleans and smooth breakup with plenty of punch. Unequaled clarity and complex harmonics, plenty of sustain and depth.

In my Roadster and Recto Pre/2:100 rack, I only use TAD 6L6s. For chugging rhythm work, they are the best in rectifiers. However, they are capable of more then just pounding bottom. I think these tubes produce a very bright and articulate sound on solos. Again, the tubestore review:
TAD 6L6GC-STR - Very close tonally to the JJ 6L6GC with a bit more going on and easily justifying the extra $4. These are labeled as an STR tube. STR standing for Special Tube Request. When a buyer goes to the tube maker and delivers a specific set of specifications the tube goes into production as a S.T.R. One of the best know is the old Sylvania 6L6 tall bottles with the designation STR387. The TAD 6L6GC-STR is matched for plate current and transconductance and has the look of an old Sylvania. Using the old school U.S. style 6L6 plate design and a shiny black plate material they look like American manufactured stock. The sound is all there. The TAD is very percussive or punchy if you prefer. This makes them great for palm muting or “chunky” down-stroke rhythm playing. They break up a bit earlier than a JJ or Svetlana so you can get a bit nasty by digging in with your pick or clean things up by rolling back your volume control. They had the best tone biased at about 70% of rated plate dissipation. That’s about 21 watts at idle for a tube with a design max output of 30 watts. Both this tube and the TAD 6L6WGC-STR had some initial drift in plate current and required about 20 minutes to settle. I would recommend installing the tubes with an initial bias setting close to your target and check them again after ten minutes in play mode with a final check and adjustment after twenty minutes.

My personal preference would be to puts SEDs in a Mark amp. Ultimately, you are going to have to try both and decide which one works best.

All the best and HTH.

 

[212Mavguy]

cscotto:

Brilliant post, good work.

 

[cscotto]

cscotto:

Brilliant post, good work.

Thanks 212Mavguy. Just trying to do my part for the Boogie Nation. :wink: