What about Groove Tubes?

[InsomniaClown]

I have been reading this forum for a bit. I am still a noob, so maybe I just missed it when I was surfing through the forum, but how do Groove Tubes compare in general to other tubes? I have read about JJ's, SED's, Mesa, NOS, NOS reissue, etc. I have read about specific types of Groove Tubes, and the Groove Tube rating system, yet I have noticed that when someone asks about what tubes are killer, Groove Tubes are rarely recommended.

The only things I really know about GT's, they are expensive. But are they worth it? I was at a music store by my house, asked about GT's, and the guy responded with
'Hey, I am not a tube snob".
Nice guy. Really informative.

So, do they rule? Or not so much.

 

[stokes]

"So, do they rule? Or not so much". Depends on who you ask.Some people love them,others not so much.I can tell you that GT's are just current production tubes that are tested, matched for bias and re-labeled.If you are able to check/adjust the bias you could just buy the same tubes from Sovtek or whoever at about half the cost.For those who are not so tech oriented,they are a good choice.The Chinese or Russian tubes that Mesa sells you are the same Chinese or Russian tubes that GT sells you,with a different label.

 

[polotska]

Groove Tubes does produce some of their own tubes, such as their 6L6GE. It remains to be seen what will happen to these tubes now that Fender owns GT and apparently has shuttered most/all of GT's domestic operations.

 

[stokes]

Groove Tubes does produce some of their own tubes, such as their 6L6GE. It remains to be seen what will happen to these tubes now that Fender owns GT and apparently has shuttered most/all of GT's domestic operations.

They own the machines that produces them,but they arent produced here in the USA,just another Russian or Chinese tube.

 

[polotska]

The last time I checked the 6L6GEs were made in the USA.

 

[stokes]

There are no tubes being manufactured in the USA.The EPA saw to that back in the 1980's.It cost so much to dispose of the toxic chemicals used in the process,it is not cost effective to produce them here.

 

[polotska]

From the Groove Tubes website:

GT reissue which have a majority of USA components made on the original General Electric machines, the original tools, dies, materials and processing formulas as acquired from the liquidation for the last American tube factory in Owensboro Kentucky. Stunning clarity, and tone that is reminiscent of Carl Perkins through Jimi Hendrix... both of which mostly recorded through Fender amps in a period when they only use this tube. The most expensive (because of the the high US content)

http://www.groovetubes.com/GT-6L6GE_Duet_P1713.cfm

On that same web-page, there is a link to a Guitar Player review which states:

Produced almost entirely in Groove Tubes' Sylmar, California, factory, the GT6L6GE uses the original GE plate material (a complex, multi-layer alloy), and features grids that are wound on the same machines once used by GE. Other key components are made by the same vendors that supplied GE, and 90 percent of the tube's content is of U.S. origin.

If they are made from a majority of USA components, it is more accurate to call them American-made than anything else. It's certainly not "just another Russian or Chinese tube."

 

[stokes]

And do you think Sovtek and the other foreign companies didnt buy up leftover stock from the US companies when production in the US stopped?Do you think the US companies just deep sixed all their stock?JJ's are supposedly made on the same machines that Tesla's were once made on,doesnt make them Tesla's.When you show me a GT tube that lasts as long as a NOS GE,Maybe I'd buy into GT's marketing scheme,but until then.... Tubes are no longer made in the USA.Look,if you like the GT's and are happy with their performance,thats great,they sell a lot of tubes,and I aint saying they are bad,but NOS is better for a lot of reasons.The current tube market dictates that current production tubes have a certain amount of "built in obsolescence" or they couldnt sell enough to make it profitable.In the old days everything electronic used tubes,today the tube market has shrunk to just us,guitar players and to a lesser degree Hi-Fi guys.Probably less than 1% of what the market was in 1960.Gt's own words say "produced almost entirely" and "have a majority of USA components".So just how much of them are produced here?I would bet their biggest involvement is labeling and boxing them.But they certainly arent made here.

 

[polotska]

I have no vested interest here as I've never even used the tubes in question, nor do I have any GT tubes in any of my amps, nor do I have any connection to GT, Aspen Pittman, FMIC, etc.

Believe what you like, but a quick Internet search will establish that these tubes are made with at least 90% American content (and not merely that these tubes are manufactured on ex-G.E. equipment). The Guitar Player article cited above says 90%. KCA NOS Tubes, a popular web reseller of both NOS and new production tubes, even says the tubes are 95% American components:
http://kcanostubes.com/products/102/Groove-Tubes-6L6GE-6L6GC-Pair.htm

And regardless of the exact percentage of American components, these are indisputably not a rebadged Russian/Slovak/Chinese tube available under other brand names, which was my original point.

 

[stokes]

And my original point was that they are not made in the USA,which they arent.When tube manufacture stopped here,the components still on hand didnt disappear,they were sold to overseas manufacturers,of which there are a handful,so a lot of your Sovteks etc.are likely also 95% American components.Truth in advertising,eh.

 

[polotska]

More interesting reading here:
http://www.legendarytones.com/groovetubes.html

 

[stokes]

I can say I agree with most of what he says here.What I take offense to is his repetition that the GT is a USA made tube.I cant say for sure where it is made,but even from GT's own hype,they dont claim it is 100% made in the USA,that fact alone is cause for suspicion.It is a good tube,I have installed them in a few amps for other people and compared them with my own NOS tubes,including,but not limited to GE's,they are good,but the NOS are all better,in my opinion,tone,after all is totally subjective.As to how long they will hold up,the jury is still out,but it is a good bet that they wont hold up like a good NOS tube.GT has a clever advertising scheme here,but when it all washes,they aint "Made in the USA",as they would like you to believe.

 

[polotska]

Fair enough. Like I said, I've never used these tubes, so I have no idea how good they sound, let alone how well they'll hold up.

Cheers!

 

[stokes]

Dont mean to sound like I'm shooting them down completely,by all means,if you dont have the time or means to find NOS tubes at bargain prices they are definately a good sounding tube and worth trying.It just pisses me off that a company like GT would mislead the average guy with half truths to get top dollar for a tube that aint what it appears to be.They certainly appear to be a good deal when compared to what you pay for a good NOS tube from a dealer,but if you take the time and effort you can find good NOS tubes at a fraction of the cost of what a dealer charges.I have spent years amassing tubes at flea markets and even eBay and now have enough power tubes to last myself and my two sons the rest of their lives,and we have 18 amps.Preamp tubes will be in our family long enough to supply their kids.Even good used tubes will out perform most current production tubes,so dont over look them either.If there is one truth about tubes,its that they dont make them like they used to,period.Maybe these GT6L6GE's will prove that wrong,but it hasnt yet,at least not in my mind.

 

[InsomniaClown]

From what I've been reading, Groove tubes just seem like decent quality tubes, but they seem overpriced. I read over that article, and their reissue GE didn't seem to deliver the same level of performance as the NOS GE. I also agree that saying "made in the USA" without actually making them in the USA is dishonest. Well, I will stick to buying tubes from other sources unless I hear something different about these. Thanks for all the info!

 

[polotska]

Groove Tubes is quite forthcoming about where their tubes come from--they clearly identify the country of origin (and even the factory) that makes their tubes. That's one of the reasons why I don't agree with the argument that the 6L6GEs are not made in the USA. But that's another story.

I've personally only used Groove Tubes a handful of times, but I'd agree with the assessment that they are of decent quality but a poor value due to their higher price.

As for the original General Electric 6L6s: in fairness, since these are one of the most highly regarded 6L6s ever made, there probably isn't a single current-production 6L6 from any manufacturer that can compare in quality.