i recentley just bought a used single rectifier series two head, i got it home and messed around with the setting for a couple of days and came to the conclusion the distortion sounded a little weak and harsh, also whenever i put the presence past 9 o'clock it just sounds horrible(tried my ten band eq in the loop didnt help a whole lot). i did some research on the net and and read quite a few articles on similar problems that were related to old or worn out tubes. So today i went and purchased new electro harmonix tubes for the pre amp and the power amp but this did not help. also i checked the speaker cable and it is fine i run it through a orange pc212 cab. any input would be awsome guys, hopefully ile get it into a tech somtime late august.
weak distortion single rectifier
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YellowJacket
Well-known member
Hmm, so the tubes seem to be alright? Usually it is good to get matched tubes for a fixed bias amp, I'm assuming the ElectroHarmonix are?
Which single rectifier is this? Is it the old version or the new one. The clean on the old version sounded great but the distortion is weaksauce. The new model has the same circuit board as the Dual and Triple minus the tube rectifier and they seriously haul. If you have the old model, your troubleshooting is done. If you have the new one, you can continue.
Ok, so what else may be wrong in your signal chain? You have used other tube amps before? I know this may seem like a dumb question but I find that for some guitarists, it is hard to make the 'jump' from solidstate to Tube since tube gain has so much more response and headroom. You can't saturate tube gain the way you can solid state gain without the signal getting super muddy. What sort of guitar are you using? What sort of pickups are in it? The sound of the guitar greatly influences the tone that comes out of the amp. A crappy guitar even with expensive pickups will still sound only marginal or maybe decent. Furthermore, you will find that some guitars simply sound great with one amp and terrible with another. If you have a great guitar, then look at the pickups. Do the pickups you have work with the amp? My brother's Red Bear loves Alnico II magnets but hates Alnico V magnets. My Les Paul may be a $3,000 guitar but it is not the right guitar for his amp. It doesn't mean that the amp is bad, just the combo is wrong. If you like metal, seriously consider getting some active pickups. they have HUGE gain and searing overtones. Look on seymour Duncan's website and listen to the 'livewire metal' humbucker compared to every other pickup. You'll see very quickly what a drastic effect pickups have on tone.
Maybe you simply don't like the sound of the amp? That is fine too. Maybe you think you 'should' like a mesa but you really want a Bogner or maybe a Marshall. Did you inspect the backpanel of the single rectifier? There are a pile of power settings which is probably the most annoying thing about Mesa amps in general. (unless you like tweaking) Perhaps try setting the power setting to 'bold' instead of 'spongy' and setting the channel to Red (modern) on the back panel. That should give you a much more aggressive gain tone. Did you check the bias select for the tubes? Are you using 6L6 or EL 34s? The bias setting should match the tube type. If you aren't using either of those (5881s are equivalent to 6L6s) then you need the correct tubes for the amp. Also, don't dump the presence. It sounds best at around a quarter. Mesa heads use cascading gain so each dial affects the next to add or remove distortion from the sound. It is best to dial all the knobs in straight up at a half and then move them around from there.
Lastly, look at the cab. How does the cab work sonically? Which frequencies does it emphasize? What about the speakers? Do the speakers complement the sound of the amp. Speakers colour the sound in a great way. Some people like a tight speaker like a Celestion V30 or Classic Lead. Others prefer something with more speaker grind or breakup like a G12T - 75 or a G12H 30 or G12m 25. (You can tell I am a celestion guy. Just swap in your favourite speaker brand name here)
Finally, what kind of tones do you like? Which bands do you like? What sort of gear do they use. I had many tones I liked and I kept swapping gear but one day I realized that the amp wasn't the problem at all. I discovered that every guitarist who had a tone I liked was playing a Gibson Les Paul. Well, I bought one and since then, I've been happy as a clam.
Which single rectifier is this? Is it the old version or the new one. The clean on the old version sounded great but the distortion is weaksauce. The new model has the same circuit board as the Dual and Triple minus the tube rectifier and they seriously haul. If you have the old model, your troubleshooting is done. If you have the new one, you can continue.
Ok, so what else may be wrong in your signal chain? You have used other tube amps before? I know this may seem like a dumb question but I find that for some guitarists, it is hard to make the 'jump' from solidstate to Tube since tube gain has so much more response and headroom. You can't saturate tube gain the way you can solid state gain without the signal getting super muddy. What sort of guitar are you using? What sort of pickups are in it? The sound of the guitar greatly influences the tone that comes out of the amp. A crappy guitar even with expensive pickups will still sound only marginal or maybe decent. Furthermore, you will find that some guitars simply sound great with one amp and terrible with another. If you have a great guitar, then look at the pickups. Do the pickups you have work with the amp? My brother's Red Bear loves Alnico II magnets but hates Alnico V magnets. My Les Paul may be a $3,000 guitar but it is not the right guitar for his amp. It doesn't mean that the amp is bad, just the combo is wrong. If you like metal, seriously consider getting some active pickups. they have HUGE gain and searing overtones. Look on seymour Duncan's website and listen to the 'livewire metal' humbucker compared to every other pickup. You'll see very quickly what a drastic effect pickups have on tone.
Maybe you simply don't like the sound of the amp? That is fine too. Maybe you think you 'should' like a mesa but you really want a Bogner or maybe a Marshall. Did you inspect the backpanel of the single rectifier? There are a pile of power settings which is probably the most annoying thing about Mesa amps in general. (unless you like tweaking) Perhaps try setting the power setting to 'bold' instead of 'spongy' and setting the channel to Red (modern) on the back panel. That should give you a much more aggressive gain tone. Did you check the bias select for the tubes? Are you using 6L6 or EL 34s? The bias setting should match the tube type. If you aren't using either of those (5881s are equivalent to 6L6s) then you need the correct tubes for the amp. Also, don't dump the presence. It sounds best at around a quarter. Mesa heads use cascading gain so each dial affects the next to add or remove distortion from the sound. It is best to dial all the knobs in straight up at a half and then move them around from there.
Lastly, look at the cab. How does the cab work sonically? Which frequencies does it emphasize? What about the speakers? Do the speakers complement the sound of the amp. Speakers colour the sound in a great way. Some people like a tight speaker like a Celestion V30 or Classic Lead. Others prefer something with more speaker grind or breakup like a G12T - 75 or a G12H 30 or G12m 25. (You can tell I am a celestion guy. Just swap in your favourite speaker brand name here)
Finally, what kind of tones do you like? Which bands do you like? What sort of gear do they use. I had many tones I liked and I kept swapping gear but one day I realized that the amp wasn't the problem at all. I discovered that every guitarist who had a tone I liked was playing a Gibson Les Paul. Well, I bought one and since then, I've been happy as a clam.
wow awsome post yellowjacket, you brought up alot of great points for me to think about. im not sure if this is a new mesa single rectifier as for it does not have any of the spongy or bold options the serial is 550-04616. my gear is as follows gibson les paul studio x2n(bridge) evo(neck) b.c rich gunsligher power and a godin lgxt. i have had a tube amp before it was a traynor ycv80 itscreamed it was an awsome amp but i had to sell due to moving. ile still take it to the tech if nothing has changed maybe this amp just isnt for me. thanks for the input
single rec old or new do not have spongy or bold settings
the only thing on the back pannel is the fx loop
to hear the amps intended sound get some stock mesa tubes in it.
then you must spend A LOT of time playing with it.
It took me about a year to figure out my single rec
and there are still new sounds that I find in.
A couple of days is not going to do it.
turn off the lights and twist the knobs until you get something you like
you may be surprised by where the knobs end up.
dont let your eyes tell you how the amp sounds LISTEN to it.
Try some of your guitars with moderate output pickups.
the only thing on the back pannel is the fx loop
to hear the amps intended sound get some stock mesa tubes in it.
then you must spend A LOT of time playing with it.
It took me about a year to figure out my single rec
and there are still new sounds that I find in.
A couple of days is not going to do it.
turn off the lights and twist the knobs until you get something you like
you may be surprised by where the knobs end up.
dont let your eyes tell you how the amp sounds LISTEN to it.
Try some of your guitars with moderate output pickups.
Thats a good point coppa i havnt really given it to much time. its just that the sounds doesnt seemed that difined coming out of it kind of reminds me of my old 10 watt practice amp with my boss ds-1 back when i first started out. even the cleans on my line 6 spider 3 blow it out of the water 
. but i still have another six weeks with it before i head to the city with it to get check out. and im not sure if it is a new or old single rectifier all it has is the bias switch and the fx loop and the foot switch.
. but i still have another six weeks with it before i head to the city with it to get check out. and im not sure if it is a new or old single rectifier all it has is the bias switch and the fx loop and the foot switch.dtrax
Well-known member
My guess is something isn't right with the amp, even if at the end of the day you don't dig the recto tone. I personally find Modern mode too harsh at times; Vintage mode is more of the tone I hear in my head. Here's my go-to setting that works well for rhythm and lead playing (for me and my guitars), and my tone certainly isn't weak by any means...
Red Channel, Vintage
Gain: 1:30
Treble: 2:00
Mid: 8:00
Bass: 1:00
Pres: 12:00
Master: 10:30
What are your settings, BTW?
Red Channel, Vintage
Gain: 1:30
Treble: 2:00
Mid: 8:00
Bass: 1:00
Pres: 12:00
Master: 10:30
What are your settings, BTW?
YellowJacket
Well-known member
Ok, I'll digress further on but I'd like to offer you a practical solution: Take your amp to a guitar store and a/b it with other single rectos. You can try different guitars just for arguments sake. This will help you avoid an unnecessary technician's fee and help to discern if the head simply sucks for what you need, if it is the guitar, or if there is actually a problem. Once you get your answer, then you can proceed. Spend no more money than you have to. I'd suggest for guitars you use a Gibson Les Paul Standard or a PRS of some sort. These guitars are basically guaranteed to match a production equipped dual out of the box with their pickups. It won't necessarily be YOUR tone but you can discern some problems pretty quickly if there are any. Run the heads with a Mesa Recto or Stiletto 4 x 12 if possible. If you get enough known components, it should be pretty easy to narrow down the problem. Also, bring your guitar(s). You can try them with other amps of the same brand to see if that is what you are not happy with.
This should help you troubleshoot and cost you nothing. You just have to tell the guitar guys you need to try some gear but you aren't ready to buy quite yet.
***********digression*********
I typed out a long post and realized that it is half irrelevant and doesn't really help you solve your problem but I left it in for informations sake. It will basically let you do some amp tweaking once you're done with troubleshooting.
Ok, I've never heard a recto compared to a boss distortion pedal before. Something is wrong here. A Single Rectifier solo head should blow a Traynor out of the water entirely in terms of massive distortion sound. It should be no contest. With my Dual + Gibson LP Standard, I run the Red channel with the volume just a hair over a quarter, the treble at 6, mids at 2 or 3, bass at 6, gain at 7 or 8, presence at 3, (out of 12) and the amp sounds huge like a bloody chainsaw. I've never heard any other head put out a huge sound quite like it. I've played Single Recs in the store and the tone is quite similar, if not more aggressive since the tubes run harder at an equivalent volume. I suggest emailing Mesa Boogie's customer support with the serial number to find out which design of amp is it. Is it the head? If it looks like the Dual and Triple for the chassis, then it is the newer version. (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/enlarge/Group-LG.htm) I checked on the site and it doesn't look like the back plate has the bold and spongy power setting like the higher wattage heads do. I know it doesn't have the tube rectifier already.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/the_single_rectifiers.html
Can you check out the tubes again? I've tried running tubes that weren't tested by mesa in my dual and they were pretty terrible. (tonnes of microphonic squeal. I promptly returned them) The only other tube testing label I've heard in a dual is groove tubes which seem to be pretty awesome. When I re-tubed my Dual, I swapped out each of the Mesa badged 12ax7s in the first spot to see which were the quietest and the noisiest to make sure I was getting the least amount of tube noise possible from the amp. I actually use two SP-12ax7a (high performance) tubes for the first and second gain stage to minimize the woosh and flub. Because the gain is cascading, I suggest that for 12ax7s, you put the least noisy tube in position one and then the next least noisy in position 2 and so on. I went so far as to test preamp tubes at the local L&MQ to make sure I didn't get a dud) There should be a users manual for your amp that you can download from Mesa and if you ask nicely, they'll even ship a print version out to you.
( least noisy 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 most noisy)
Mesa also should have a tube chart somewhere talking about the different type of tubes they badge and the different sound qualities. This is very handy in tailoring/ tweaking your tone, provided you know everything else is working.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/TubeReference/TubeSalesReferenceGuide-11-10-08.pdf
Here we go. All the tubes have colours which indicate their operating parameters. You can match the power tubes with the same model number of tube that is the same colour. I recall they have Green, grey, Yellow, and Red. Can't remember if there are any other colours. The Yellow and Red run much hotter. I find I prefer those colours.
You can use any tube that is a 6L6, 5881, and el-34. The 6L6 and 5881 must both run on the 6L6 bias setting and the El-34 must run on the EL 34 setting. Basically, the 6L6 / 5881 have a really creamy and almost blue sound to them. They purr and have a smooth high end. They also have a longer tube life on average. In contrast, the EL-34s have a much more aggressive and throaty snarl for gain and the clean is 'brown' and much warmer. It still sounds like a dual, but the tone is more marshall-ish. With tubes, you really get to tweak your sound and 'pick your poison' so to speak. I've tried the 5881s (STR-425) and the 6L6 440s. The 5881s aren't as aggressive. I notice there are some tube types they aren't offering anymore. I haven't yet tried the STR 447s although I'd like to. The El34s I ran I don't see on that chart. They were said to have a sound midway between a 6L6 and an EL34. Right now, I run Yellowjackets with EL84s which is ideal for volume sensitive situations. I haven't had my halfstack out in ages.
As for speakers, I find the tighter the speaker cone, the more gain they can handle before getting muddy. If you have a grindy speaker then you have to back off the gain to clean the sound up. I also find that in live situations, I prefer not to saturate my sound too much because I want people to hear what I am playing. Especially with two guitars, you have to blend your sound. Back in my band days, my brother and I chose our gear on the advice of our guitar tech: I played a Les Paul and he played Tele so that our sounds would be distinct and separate. We found that the distortion tones really jived well together and resulted in a very thick crunch that was also well defined.
This should help you troubleshoot and cost you nothing. You just have to tell the guitar guys you need to try some gear but you aren't ready to buy quite yet.
***********digression*********
I typed out a long post and realized that it is half irrelevant and doesn't really help you solve your problem but I left it in for informations sake. It will basically let you do some amp tweaking once you're done with troubleshooting.
Ok, I've never heard a recto compared to a boss distortion pedal before. Something is wrong here. A Single Rectifier solo head should blow a Traynor out of the water entirely in terms of massive distortion sound. It should be no contest. With my Dual + Gibson LP Standard, I run the Red channel with the volume just a hair over a quarter, the treble at 6, mids at 2 or 3, bass at 6, gain at 7 or 8, presence at 3, (out of 12) and the amp sounds huge like a bloody chainsaw. I've never heard any other head put out a huge sound quite like it. I've played Single Recs in the store and the tone is quite similar, if not more aggressive since the tubes run harder at an equivalent volume. I suggest emailing Mesa Boogie's customer support with the serial number to find out which design of amp is it. Is it the head? If it looks like the Dual and Triple for the chassis, then it is the newer version. (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/enlarge/Group-LG.htm) I checked on the site and it doesn't look like the back plate has the bold and spongy power setting like the higher wattage heads do. I know it doesn't have the tube rectifier already.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/The_Single_Rectifiers/the_single_rectifiers.html
Can you check out the tubes again? I've tried running tubes that weren't tested by mesa in my dual and they were pretty terrible. (tonnes of microphonic squeal. I promptly returned them) The only other tube testing label I've heard in a dual is groove tubes which seem to be pretty awesome. When I re-tubed my Dual, I swapped out each of the Mesa badged 12ax7s in the first spot to see which were the quietest and the noisiest to make sure I was getting the least amount of tube noise possible from the amp. I actually use two SP-12ax7a (high performance) tubes for the first and second gain stage to minimize the woosh and flub. Because the gain is cascading, I suggest that for 12ax7s, you put the least noisy tube in position one and then the next least noisy in position 2 and so on. I went so far as to test preamp tubes at the local L&MQ to make sure I didn't get a dud) There should be a users manual for your amp that you can download from Mesa and if you ask nicely, they'll even ship a print version out to you.
( least noisy 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 most noisy)
Mesa also should have a tube chart somewhere talking about the different type of tubes they badge and the different sound qualities. This is very handy in tailoring/ tweaking your tone, provided you know everything else is working.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/TubeReference/TubeSalesReferenceGuide-11-10-08.pdf
Here we go. All the tubes have colours which indicate their operating parameters. You can match the power tubes with the same model number of tube that is the same colour. I recall they have Green, grey, Yellow, and Red. Can't remember if there are any other colours. The Yellow and Red run much hotter. I find I prefer those colours.
You can use any tube that is a 6L6, 5881, and el-34. The 6L6 and 5881 must both run on the 6L6 bias setting and the El-34 must run on the EL 34 setting. Basically, the 6L6 / 5881 have a really creamy and almost blue sound to them. They purr and have a smooth high end. They also have a longer tube life on average. In contrast, the EL-34s have a much more aggressive and throaty snarl for gain and the clean is 'brown' and much warmer. It still sounds like a dual, but the tone is more marshall-ish. With tubes, you really get to tweak your sound and 'pick your poison' so to speak. I've tried the 5881s (STR-425) and the 6L6 440s. The 5881s aren't as aggressive. I notice there are some tube types they aren't offering anymore. I haven't yet tried the STR 447s although I'd like to. The El34s I ran I don't see on that chart. They were said to have a sound midway between a 6L6 and an EL34. Right now, I run Yellowjackets with EL84s which is ideal for volume sensitive situations. I haven't had my halfstack out in ages.
As for speakers, I find the tighter the speaker cone, the more gain they can handle before getting muddy. If you have a grindy speaker then you have to back off the gain to clean the sound up. I also find that in live situations, I prefer not to saturate my sound too much because I want people to hear what I am playing. Especially with two guitars, you have to blend your sound. Back in my band days, my brother and I chose our gear on the advice of our guitar tech: I played a Les Paul and he played Tele so that our sounds would be distinct and separate. We found that the distortion tones really jived well together and resulted in a very thick crunch that was also well defined.
I found that switching the bias switch to el34 while running 6l6 tubes makes a big difference too. It makes the whole amp sound warmer and bigger to my ears. Seems like its not damaging. Ive been running it that way for several months. It might decrease the tube life span, but it sounds much better to me that way.
ibanez4life SZ!
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How loud are you playing the amp?
I love my Mesas, but I CAN NOT play them at anything but gig volumes. THAT's when they sound right. At bedroom/low volume, they choke IMO...harsh, thin, and stiff.
Good luck!
I love my Mesas, but I CAN NOT play them at anything but gig volumes. THAT's when they sound right. At bedroom/low volume, they choke IMO...harsh, thin, and stiff.
Good luck!
tennisplayer
Well-known member
I have a Solo head the first version and my distortion is simply amazing. I bought it because I love a friends dual rect but didn't need 100 watts. I've never heard that the first Series had weak distortion. Mine is thick and meaty!
Using a clock face my settings are:
Vintage:
pres. 10 oclock
bass: 11
mid: 2
treble: 1
gain noon
Modern
pre 9
bass 11
mid 10am
treb 9am
gain 1 oclock
Using a clock face my settings are:
Vintage:
pres. 10 oclock
bass: 11
mid: 2
treble: 1
gain noon
Modern
pre 9
bass 11
mid 10am
treb 9am
gain 1 oclock
YellowJacket
Well-known member
I tried a series 1 single rec and I didn't like the distortion at all but I love the series 2. I'm guessing yours is a head? The one I tried was a combo and it was lamesauce. Maybe there was a problem with it?
Chris McKinley
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Yellowjacket,
Your first post here was gold. As great as Recto amps are, too many players have just jumped on the popularity bandwagon and spent a lot of money on a Recto amp that wasn't really what they were after. A lot of guys just hear from their friends how cool it would be to have a Mesa Recto and, almost unbelievably, a lot of guys purchase based on that alone. It's your tone, guys...if you're gonna spend big $$$ on it, make sure it's what you want first. You wouldn't spend 2 grand on a suit without trying it on, only to find out it's polyester blue leisure suit that doesn't really match your style and the sleeves are too short.
Your guitar is the ax and your amp is the hammer. These are what you are going to be crushing your audience's heads with....do it with style...your style.
Your first post here was gold. As great as Recto amps are, too many players have just jumped on the popularity bandwagon and spent a lot of money on a Recto amp that wasn't really what they were after. A lot of guys just hear from their friends how cool it would be to have a Mesa Recto and, almost unbelievably, a lot of guys purchase based on that alone. It's your tone, guys...if you're gonna spend big $$$ on it, make sure it's what you want first. You wouldn't spend 2 grand on a suit without trying it on, only to find out it's polyester blue leisure suit that doesn't really match your style and the sleeves are too short.
Your guitar is the ax and your amp is the hammer. These are what you are going to be crushing your audience's heads with....do it with style...your style.
clutch71
Well-known member
If your having to dime the gain to get any sort of distortion out of the amp , you may have a blown grid resistor. Easy and relatively inexpensive. 45-60 bucks.
If you have raw mode you have series 2.
If you have raw mode you have series 2.
That sucks i went to a shop to try a Single Rec (would have been a series 2).
I got my own second hand and it hasn't been the same. Its a series 1 and I guess this is why.
I payed £980 for my single rec series one... Was i ripped off?
I got my own second hand and it hasn't been the same. Its a series 1 and I guess this is why.
I payed £980 for my single rec series one... Was i ripped off?
