Voodoo Amp Boogie Rectifier Mods -- Your opinions please...

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Anthony1967

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Was possibly thinking of modding my nearly new triple rectifier with Voodoo Amps of Ithica, NY but.....

Read some bad reviews concerning voodoo mods on Harmony Central. One guy had a picture of his amp's circuit board where Trace apparently covered the circuits with black epoxy to hide is work--thus making the amp unserviceable. He also signed the amp in various places with black magic marker! Here, check out this picture:

http://www.frankencat.com/voodoo/

I was considering them but I don't want to butcher my head -- what was your experience?

Anthony1967

:twisted:
 
Trace is a good man. What you see is a proprietary circuit mod from Voodoo. When you invent something that can be easily copied and posted on the web you want to cover your design. Have you ever seen the inside of a Dumble, Fuchs or a Klon Centuar? They are covered in black epoxy. Unfortunately, there are other ways to hide a circuit design than slobbering epoxy all over it. In any case, the owner should have been made aware of this and Voodoo should have had him sign a consent form. If you do not have a signed and written contract you will have no legal recourse if you dont like the amp and it cannot be put back to stock, or if they added things you did not want. There is only one place I would have that amp fixed. Soldano Custom Amplification.

In your case, the amp you have was designed to sound the way it does.
It does not have an easily modifiable circuit board and is a very complicated circuit. If there is something in your amp you think you are missing, it may not be the right amp for you or your setup is not condusive to the tone you are seeking. Try a different speaker cab, tubes, settings and see if you can dial in your tone. Although there are good amp modifiers out there, ther alternative is an amp that can never go back to stock and can actually cost you 1/2 of what you paid for the original amp in mods, labor and shipping. It's a big risk.
 
yeah dude, I wouldn't want anyone covering my circuit board with epoxy.

I see why he'd do it, but I don't want it done to my amp.
 
I also hear that his mods make every amp sound very similar...takes away the unique characteristics of each amp and brings them all to his "voodoo" tone.....I really don't see a point.....
 
ibanez4life SZ! said:
I also hear that his mods make every amp sound very similar...takes away the unique characteristics of each amp and brings them all to his "voodoo" tone.....I really don't see a point.....

This is not true. I had mine modded and it is just a cleaner, less fizzy, more harmonically rich Mesa Dual Rectifier Solo head. I'm very happy with it the way it is now. This is the second amp I have had modded and I can tell you that it didn't really change the overall tone of either amp.
 
Well, nice to hear from someone with actual experience...as I mentioned, it was only what I heard.....
 
There is a lot more to this story than those photos show and the admittedly condensed version of the story leaves out some very telling tidbits.

1. Trace doesn't use epoxy anymore and hasn't for years - go to his website for the rebuttal on that.

2. The old thread that this is epoxy scandal is based on was started by a guy explictly trying to reverse engineer his mods.

I've never had any work done by Trace but by all accounts he is a stand up guy and his mods are all fully reversible.

to mod or not to mod is its own question but in my conversations with him, yes I actually talked with him, he was straight up about telling me what he could and couldn't fix on an amp I used to have before I found the light and came to Mesa.

-P
 
I talked to him as well and he said most of his mods will clean up the sound and make everything clearer. He seems like a good guy but i dont know.
BTW my amp was modded by a guy named joel in Nashville, TN and it is great. I have experience with 2 of his modded amps and both are phenominal. My mesa DR, and my uncles sovtek head.
 
Voodoo doesn't epoxy your amp. That particular case was because the amp belonged to an amp tech who came right out and admitted he wanted to reverse engineer Trace's work. I have never before witnessed the high level of customer service exhibited by Trace and Voodoo Amps.
 
I have had 2 heads modded, one by Trace's company and one by JerryP at FJAMods. I have had similar changes done to both amps and it really took both amps to a level not attainable by just replacing tubes and/or speakers/cabinets.

The first amp I had modded was a Peavey Triple XXX.

I was playing a Mark IIC+ and wasn't happy with the tone of the clean when I had it set for crunch lead sounds and didn't like the crunch sounds when I had a good clean sound dialed in. I decided that I wanted to buy a high gain three channel amp that had separate EQ and gains. I had had a Dual Rectifier when they first came out, a 2 channel, and absolutely hated the clean channel so I didn't play one during my testing, my mistake. I tested a lot of amps before buying the XXX. I played the JSX and 5150II and thought that for what I was looking for the XXX was a better fit. The 5150II didn't sound good for clean and the JSX didn't get there for the high gain sound. They were all around a grand at the time and that was a little easier to swallow than the $2000-4000 for some of the better quality amps. I was also interested in the Splawn, Voodoo Amps, Framus, Bogner and VHT models but they just were too expensive, or so I thought at the time.

After I had owned the Peavey for a few months a friend of mine got me started with modding effects pedals. I bought a couple of DIY kits and really liked the results of the pedals. I really liked what it did to driving the Mark IIC+ into singing leads, but it took some volume to get it there. It was then I started reading about modding my amp and what everyone that was doing had to say. It sounded EXACTLY like what I was seeing with the effects pedal mods so I pulled trigger and sent my XXX to JerryP. I was VERY please with the results.

I still wanted an amp that sounded great clean and the XXX was better with the mods but not great. And I wanted a clean channel that I could have sparkling clean or 'pushed' clean and this meant I needed an amp with a preamp gain control on that channel, the XXX didn't have that.

I sold the Mark IIC+ and used the money to buy a Lonestar that I played at the dealer that I thought was the Best sounded clean I had ever heard. When I was a kid my dad had an original 65 Fender Twin so I knew what I wanted and the Lonestar was it...

While I was playing REALLY loud one day I had a power tube short out and arced one of the PC boards in the Peavey and I had to get it fixed. This took about 3 weeks due to a backlog of work the tech had. So, in the mean time I got to thinking that if my XXX sounded this good, what would an amp that was better built, component-wise, with a closer match to the feature set that I wanted could sound like.

So, I went to play a VHT Deliverance and really liked the way that you back the guitar volume down and the sound would clean up. I couldn't do this with the Peavey. I then went to play 3 channel Dual Rec and it could do the same thing but wasn't quite as clear sounding as the VHT. This is very hard to describe and no amount of Online Clips can represent this but the sound quality was much better. I really liked the DR but I knew from the start that it could be better so I bought it with the intent of getting the clarity mods done and having a Mercury Magnetics output transformer installed.

The result was dramatic, to say the least. From first impression you could be mistaken to believe that there is less gain but what really is going on is the gain is the same but the 'noise' is gone. The hiss, fizz, buzz, crap, cheap-*** poor quality stuff is gone and what is left is pure and musical.

Read the Harmony Central posts from others that have done this to their 5150's or DR's or XXX and remember that most the owners don't post after having this done.

There are people that want the high end sizzle/fizz and so for some this mod is not going to be worth it. And there are those that try making an amp that they don't like into something that is not possible to achieve. If you want a Marshall sound, buy a Marshall. If Fender is for you, same answer. A Mesa is a Mesa, perios. You can clean up some of the sound by swapping preamp and/or power amp tubes, getting different speakers/cabs. But imagine for just a moment if you started out with an amp that the tone and gain was more pristine to start with and then you swapped the tubes and speakers around to get EXACTLY the sound you want.

It use to be that Mesa would do these kinds of mods for you, for a price. That's why there are so many different Mark versions, they would modify something for a certain player and realize that this was a good thing and changed production to accommodate this change into the line. They've gotten too big for that now and so you have to look elsewhere. The Dual Rec is a good amp that only needs a little tweaking to make it a great amp. I think you could get almost there by just replacing the OT with a Mercury Magnetics. If Mesa offered this as a factory option, people would buy it once they heard the difference. It made my Peavey sound close to a VHT, for God's sake!!!!

Like I said, this is a great mod if you already like the sound of the Dual Rec but want to clean up the sound just a little. :)

Try to remember this: the sound your amp makes is only a small part of what is important in being a performer. You still have to play well, fit in with the band, balance your volume and have dynamics. In a live situation running through a loud PA with a good soundman I doubt anyone in the audience would know if you had a $4000 Herbert or a $600 DigiTech so don't stress about it. We make the magic with our hands, not the amp.

I spent about $2500 getting my Mesa, (*$1800 for the amp, $700 for the mods and shipping), where I wanted it to be and would not be able to recoup that cost if I changed my mind so be SURE that you want to keep the amp before doing this or even considering it. A new VHT UltraLead is $3200, a Framus Cobra $2200, you copy?

Hope that helps.
 
cellardweller said:
Good read.
Posts like this are what makes this board so interesting.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

If everybody gives a little back, we all benefit.

take care.
 
Hey kramerxxx,
You had the XXX done by JerryP....Trace did the Mesa? You didn't specifically say that so I wanted to clarify.

I am seriously considering having JerryP do my Mesa. It would be some slight tone modifications (clean up the fizz and put some bounce in the cleans), Mercury OT and bias mod. He has not done a lot of Mesa mods, but is well known for his work on Peaveys. I had a 5150II done by him and I am very impressed with what he did to the clean channel. It would be cheaper than going with Voodoo and I have built a good relationship with Jerry. He also modified my Crybaby wah and did a great job with it.

I love my 5150II, but I like the versatility of the Mesa. It is nice having 3 channels and the solo boost. The cleans are ok. Better than the stock 5150 had, but not as good as the modded 5150 is now. There is an overall brightness and sizzle to the modern mode on either channel (especially 3) that I am not wild about. The Vintage gain on the other hand feels like it is too far back in the speakers. If I could tame the modern brightness and warm it up a bit (which Jerry says he can do) I would probably feel better about making this my go to amp. As it stands I have been using it at practice, but still feel like my preferred tone is in the 5150II.
I too am struggling with the decision to mod the Mesa. Not because I do not believe in what these guys can do, but more because I am not 100% certain the Mesa is close enough to what I want in its stock form. I totally agree with the statement that you need to find an amp you like and make it better through the mods. For me, the question is how confident do I feel that sinking the cash into it will put the Mesa ahead of the 5150 for me. If not, is it worth it to mod my back up amp? I think to many people aren't realistic about how much these guys can change. And you also have to keep in mind the resale value....it may not make it worse, but you can't expect to get all the mod money back.
 
Yes, JerrP did my Peavey, VooDoo my Mesa.

I believe JerryP is one of the best business interactions I have had with a music company/dealer/tech. He is a very good tech and a great guy to work with. The only reason I went with VooDoo is that at the time JerryP had only done one Mesa and VooDoo had done many of them. Trace had said that this was the amp most modifier by his company. If I had to do it all over again I may have gone a different direction, not sure, but not for anything negative that happened with VooDoo. I would not hesitate to use JerryP for anything. JerryP quotes about $120 cheaper, I believe. For me, I don't think cost should be the deciding factor.

I bought my Peavey really wanting the Mesa, as I've already stated, for the feature set and the quality of the build. I think the Mesa is just a step ahead of the Peavey. I spent some time collecting and seeing what the internals looked like in various amps after having seen what the Peavey looked like inside. Tonally and component-wise the Mesa starts higher up the scale.

VooDoo doesn't do the bias mod as part of their Standard or Deluxe mod any longer. Trace said that Mesa is building them with a hotter setting now and it is no longer something they do, but he would do it, if I wanted it. I chose to not do it. The abundance of tubes and companies that test the tubes means I can get a tube set that is close to what it should be without having to bias it. I'm OK with that. Also I think that I prefer the bias current a little colder than standard recommendation so this works for me. A littel colder gives a better crunch and the tubes last longer.

I considered a Peavey 6505+ before buying the Mesa as I like the High gain sound of the 5150/6505 over my XXX. In their stock form the Mesa Dual Rectifier had a better high gain and clean sound than the Peavey 6505+ for me, YMMV. Again I was also imagining what this was going to sound like AFTER the mods so I wasn't put off by the shortcomings of the amp, (*Mesa or Peavey), because I had proof of what it could sound like already with another amp.

Channel 3 was my least favorite channel. It was as you describe it, too shrill. It is not now......

Channel 2/Vintage was good, not amazing. It is now....

Channel 1, Clean and Raw are WAY better.

I like all the modes on every channel now and use them for something all the time. I can plug into the amp without switching or effects and play any channel/mode and like the sound. Period. I couldn't do that before.

The Mesa is not as High Mid voiced as a Peavey so if you are expecting it to sound like your 5150 when JerryP is done, don't have it modded. Speakers that sound too bright for my XXX sound Great with my DR. I have a 4x12 of Celestion Greenbacks that sounds really good with my Peavey. They sound good with my Mesa, they are just not as bright. The DR has a better grind/gain to it than the XXX. It has a clarity and a quality to the tone that I cannot duplicate with the XXX.

For the record I do not run the gains maxed on any of the channels at stage volume. I find I like the gains between 11 and 3 o'clock with a Tubescreamer pushing the input with a 9-9-5:30 setting for drive/tone/volume. This works for all three of my amps and gives me more usable gain settings that are stompable on demand. Where the Mesa really shines is in the function of the Solo and location of the Efx Loop button. I set the loop up for Channel 1 and switch it in for the other 2 as needed, usually during a lead. The proximity of the button makes it very easy to press at the same time as the solo button. I really like this layout and it effectively gives me more volume levels and gain that I have ever had available to me on stage. With the pedal, 3 volumes/gains per channel.

Also the volume/tone controls on my guitar is more reactive with my amp gain. By backing the volume off or the tone, I have more control without having to step on a button to change a channel. This wasn't as useable with the Peavey, even after the mod. It was better but not as dramatic as with the Mesa. FWIW the Mesa could do this from the start, it is now just much better at it. (*I did change out the cap on the tone control in one of my guitars to a 50uF silver mica which I highly recommend)

As I stated I based this on trial and error, test and listen, with other amps. I didn't even think about the 'Volume on my guitar' thing until I had a guy at a music store point it out for me on a VHT Deliverance. A very cool technique. This got me to start looking at amps that I thought had a 'Hi-Fi' kind of a tone and to thinking about why that was so. My conclusion is the Output Transformer makes the final difference. All amps that had this amazing sound for what they do had 'special' OT installed by the builder. The Soldano SLO sounds better than all the other Soldanos because they put a better tranny in it. The Knucklehead Reverb, the VHTs, Bogner, Diezels, Splawn, etc., all have great iron in them. That's why I spent the extra $250 to get this done on both my heads.

I heard a saying once that went something like this:

When it comes to quality you only complain about the price once while for the lack of quality you will complain forever.

That works for me.
 
Thanks for the great post and feedback!

I think what I like about the 5150 is the extra thump that it has. Its not so much the mid voicing difference of the two. And unlike what many people say I find that the Mesa can be EQd to sit in the mix and cut through very well. I have no problem with that. The 5150 is darker, which I prefer in my tone, but also seems a little more balanced across the EQ spectrum. Something I do believe a good OT in the Mesa would help.
I think I will probably do the mods with Jerry. I have been wearing earplugs lately to save the hearing. It is a good thing cuz deafness is bad, but it is bad in the sense that I am not really hearing the amp. The Mesa felt really good last night and the crunch and low end was nice. But I was filtering out all the highs with the earplugs....when I took them out at the end of the night I listened to ch 3 which I had set up in Vintage mode and it was awful!!!! I had swapped some tubes the other day and moved some gear around. The presence and treble seemed way higher than I normally had them when I liked the tone. Not sure if I had accidentally hit the eq when moving or if the different tube I put in V2 really brightened things up. I gotta experiment tonight to figure it out. I would like to try different tubes and really get to know the amp better before sending it for mods. I haven't owned it long.
 
When I got it, it had all JJs. Preamp and poweramp.

I replaced V1 with a Telefunken 12AX7 last week.
I replaced V2 with an original Mullard 12AX7 a few days ago. I hadn't tried it out before firing up the amp and putting the earplugs in to start practice last night. Didn't have time and kind of forgot about it.
Like I said....I never noticed the highs, but they must have been killing our singer and bass player who didn't have ear protection. I am surprised they didn't say "dude, your amp sounds like *** on ice". But I really only used that channel for 2 songs and then for a little blues/funk instrumental jam at the end.
 
To me the JJ's sound darker, which doesn't really work in a Mesa, great in a Peavey though.

Here is a trick I do when I want great ambient sound without ripping my head off:

Turn your cabinet around. Point the speakers against the wall, about 6-10 inches away. This works by letting you turn the amp up to where it is working the power section, and you don't need earplugs.
 
If you're not ready for a rave review of Trace and his Voodoo Amp mods, stop reading now!

After playing three-piece for several years (and wearing me completely out!), our band added another guitarist and a keyboard player. The gigs were coming in fast-and-furious and it was time to upgrade my rig. So, I went amp shopping at all the usual places looking for an improvement over the Johnson Millenium I'd been using for six years.

I've owned two Mesa Boogies: a Mark IIB (that amp could read my mind--I swear), and a 50/50 fronted by a couple different digi/tube hybrid preamps. Both were great, but I was looking for a few "Fendery" clean sounds in addition to the great Boogie overdrive tones I was used to. I was hired by talented gal who was doing a range of music quite different than my rock band, and needed a broader palette of sounds--hence, the modeling amp. It served me quite well in both situations, but had become somewhat unreliable over the last few months. And, since I was in no mood to try to find someone to repair a product from a company that no longer makes amps, I came home to Mesa.

I actually looked at Marshall first. I've owned a couple of older beauties, but the half-dozen new ones I tried (TSL, DSL, 900, etc.) sounded flat and lifeless compared to what I had before (I've been playing a looooong time).

I tried a Series 2 Rect-O-Verb in February '06, and the sound just blew away everything else I tried. It wasn't the Mark II sound I remembered, but it still had that responsive Boogie feel, with tone controls that actually do something. The dual channels/5 modes also offered a nice variety of sounds. I bought one almost immediately.

The amp worked fine--it sounded very tight through my 1960A with all the usual Recto goodness, but once I got on stage, the hi-gain fuzz was really getting lost in the stage mix. I tried several tone/gain configurations without much more success. That's when I decided to do a little research on Voodoo Amp mods.

Everything they write about the excellent customer service and Trace's willingness to discuss your needs is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Write an email (even a long one), he'll write back. Call the shop, he'll answer the phone. After I was satisfied that Voodoo could help, I made a "while you wait" appointment--not too hard to do, as I live 3 hours from Ithaca in Catskill, NY.

When I arrived at the shop with my amp, two young sons and my DAD, Trace and Anthony welcomed us and put up with us rummaging around their new shop for a few minutes while Anthony disassembled the Rect-O-Verb. Voodoo Amps has no "service counter." You walk in and stand right next to the workbench while the tech is working on your amp. HOW COOL IS THAT?

Dad, the boys and I went for breakfast and did a little shopping while the Voodoo guys worked on my amp, and when I came back three hours later, I was cranking my Gold Top through a newly modded amplifier. I opted for the "deluxe mod" which includes the Mercury Magnetics output transformer.

It still sounded great, but different--not nearly as fuzzy. I was also surprised at how much the clean channel had improved. Gobs more headroom. I'll also take credit for suggesting to Trace that he relocate the reverb tank to the front chassis panel to accommodate the very large OT that's used for the deluxe mod. This was the first Series 2 Rect-O-Verb they'd done, and the transformer impinges on the reverb tank if left in its stock location.

I offered to leave one of my sons in exchange for the mod. Trace preferred I pay with money. Ouch.

Back in my studio, I was very happy with the result. Listen to the clips on the Voodoo website for an idea of what the Voodoo mods sound like in general.

BUT...it wasn't until I was back on stage with the band and cranking it up a bit that I was rewarded with leads that cut through without losing that Mesa responsiveness. Alleluia! I could hear my guitar again! The crunch was still crunchy, the thump was still thumpy, and the squeals were still squealy, but I could hear them all much better And the clean channel was AWESOME. Trace says it's the MM OT that makes the big difference there.

The Voodoo mods will change the character of the distortion coming out of your amp, but if you're getting lost in the stage mix and you'd like a little more clean out of the Recto clean channel, Trace will take care of you.
 

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