Urgent Matters - RKII & MKIV tones

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mrd

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Hey guys... I started work on a new tune tonight, blending distorted tones from both my RKII and MKIV amps... I've still got some work to do on it, so I can't post it all up yet but here's a quick clip... lemme know how you like it!

If you have any questions about settings, gear, how I recorded it, anything at all, just ask.

http://members.shaw.ca/mrduplicity/urgent_matters_sample.mp3 - 1.18mb
 
haha.. tough crowd, as ever! 40 views and 2 replies :wink:

Thanks for the comments guys. I've been working on it a bit everyday for the last 3 days, I still need to add in some lead guitar stuff then I think it should be more or less done and I'll post the full mp3 up here for anyone who is interested.
 
Thanks man, they certainly make a very good combo! MKIV has the bark, RKII has the most pissed off distortion sound I've ever heard :lol:
 
i like how you can actually hear both and tell which amp is playing what..sounds killer together..both awesome amps
 
Thanks dudes. Drums are provided by Drumkit from Hell, which is an add-on pack for the EZDrummer program. It's a VST instrument that you can load into Cubase. It's triggered by a MIDI file and substitutes real drum hits in for you.

Actually Fronzil, both amps play everything together, I have my 4x12 bi-amped and played both amps together for every single take.

Thanks for comments!

EDIT: However, the RKII is focused more to the right and the MKIV is more to the left.
 
What drums are you using with the DFH? I got the pack but find myself mostly just using the stock EZ Drummer sounds.

And tell me about mic choice and placement. For the life of me I can not get good mic recordings of my amps. I finally bought a recto recording pre (which works great) but I'd really love all the tonal options of micing my amps.
 
For the drum sounds, I'm using the smaller cymbal sizes on most, 14" Sonor 1 for snare, and 22" Sonor plastic beater for the kick drum. The rest (toms) only have one Sonor option, so I'm using that, obviously.

I've taken a couple of pictures of my mic placement. As we all know, a picture is worth a thousand words. The first one just shows the overall placement and distance from the cabinet of both mics:

http://members.shaw.ca/mrduplicity/general.jpg

As you can see, both mics are fairly close up to the cab. From the grill cloth to the mic, I would say it's within 1". To the actual speaker, perhaps around 3-4". The mic on the left is an Apex 460 condenser mic. It's a great mic, it has a 12AX7 in it and it comes with an external power supply/pickup pattern selector. You can choose the three basic pickup patterns (cardioid, omni-directional, and bi-polar), and then three gradient patterns in between each, for a total of nine options. It's a great mic. In this recording I set the mic to bi-polar for two reasons. One, to reverse the phase of the mic so that it matched the other mic (my mixing board sucks and has no phase buttons on it) and two so that some "room sound" was incorporated. Had I the option to only reverse the phase and not take in the room sound, I probably would have. But correct phase is more important than a bit of room sound! The mic is positioned about 0.5" from the centre of the cone and aimed off-axis so that the pickup points more toward the edge of the speaker, rather than directly into the centre of it. I came up with this position by playing my guitar and slowly panning the mic-stand around until it sounded good to me. Then from there I just spun the mic about 30 degrees off axis so it was not aimed directly into the high-frequency beam.

The mic on the right is a great dynamic mic, pretty well known for recording guitars. It's a Sennheiser e609. I like it because it has a very nice pickup response for distorted guitars, and it can take a ******' beating in terms of volumes. With condensers you have to be careful not to ruin the pickup screen with loud SPLs, but dynamics are basically indestructible. I've used this mic (in addition to my Shure SM57) to record both my MKIV and RKII on maximum volume before and they performed admirably. The e609 is positioned more or less dead centre in the speaker, and again, aimed off-axis to the edge of the speaker.

Here's another picture from above, it shows the positioning and the aiming of the mics a bit better.

http://members.shaw.ca/mrduplicity/overhead.jpg

At the board, I panned one mic all the way left and one all the way right, then matched their gains so that there was a more-or-less even signal coming to both sides. The dynamic always requires more gain, since the condenser is both more sensitive and it also has its own power supply.

Then from there, I did three takes for the rhythm tracks. One was panned hard left, one hard right, one centre. Since I recorded in stereo, panning the two tracks left and right means that the stereo signal gets squashed into a mono signal if it's panned 100% to one side. Considering this, it's imperative that the phase relationship between the two mics is bang on. A good way to make sure they are acceptable is to do some test recording in a smaller wave-editor (like Goldwave). Record a short sound (I like to do a quick, loud note) then zoom right in to the beginning of the sound wave, and compare the left and right channels. The two channels should both start within 1ms of each other, and they should both be in phase, meaning that, if the left channel starts its waveform by trending upward, the right channel should do the same thing.

Take a look at this picture to see what I mean:

http://members.shaw.ca/mrduplicity/wave.JPG

Follow the two waves, they both start by jutting upward, both at the same time. This is essential so that when you pan the signals both to one side in your overall mix, the resultant mono signal is not riddled with phase-distortions. They can make your tone sound tinny, hollow, distant, thin, whatever... they generally aren't good.

Anyway... I think I've written a novel. Hope it helps.
 
Awesome post, man.

A lot of it I already knew, but I could see that being a great reference for people who are new to recording, mic placement and phase cancellation. And you're right about your pictures - definitely worth a thousand words. And it's funny, as you were describing your mic placement, I started thinking "I wonder about how loud he's got his amps cranked when he's recording", then you mentioned that you had tried your RK II at about full volume with the e609 and SM57.

I've got a Tube condensor very similar to the one you describe - made by sE, variable pick up patterns, etc. I think that's going to be the way to go. I picked up a Royer 181, and it is nice, although I'm still struggling finding a place to put it that really captures the whole spectrum nicely. I'll have to experiment some more, I just get a little burned out testing mic placement, especially because I'm usually by myself, so I've got my amp cranked, and trying to listen on my studio cans cranked loud enough to easily hear the mix over the amp (which is fruitless and will have me deaf by the time I'm 40). Then I record a little, listen back, and it's not what I'm going for. I just LOVE the sound of Boogie cabs, but man are they directional. Walk a couple feet and you're hearing something dramatically different than you were before.

Anyway, I'm going to study your pics a little more and try out some of the positions you suggested. I think once I find my money spot with mic placement I'll be in (recorded) tone heaven. I sure feel like I've got a pretty beatiful palette to choose from live, I just want my recordings to do it justice.

I'll shoot you a PM with my email - send some other clips my way. Once I get some decent recordings I'll take some pics of my placement and send them back to you and you can let me know what you think.
 
Cool, sorry some of it is redundant, it's hard to tell how much people do and don't know :wink:

For this song, my amps were actually pretty quiet. The MKIV I ran full power/class A/pentode with channel/master volumes at 2. RKII was matched volume with EL34s and tube rectification. I have the same trouble you do, in regards to finding a tone, testing out mic placement, etc. I'm all by myself, and it gets pretty taxing to be fidding around all the while wearing headphones and holding my guitar and my amp is hissing and feeding back and blah blah blah. Major pain in the ass! If only I had an assistant! hehe

Send me a PM and I'll email you the full track.
 
Very cool tones and riffs. The mids are really well articulated without being up in your face.

Damn. Now I want a Recto to go with my MarkV.

Thanks for the pics. I will be doing some recording soon and they will be very useful.
 
Thanks for the comments, and no problem about the pics! There's lots of tones to be had just from fiddling with mic placement.

Recto + Mark is one of the greatest combos around, I think.
 
As much as I felt like my last mic placement experimentation session ended up a waste of time, I'm excited to try again. Hopefully once I get mic placement on the RK down I'll really be excited to try mixing it with recordings from the Mark V. If I get something worthy of posting I'll try and put it up here soon.
 

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