Tung-Sol quality issues?

[swbo101]

Just put a Tung-Sol in the V1 position of my Mark IV...and loved it. The sound was great,was completely happy. The next day, I go to fire up my amp and......no sound. That tube was dead. Replaced it with another 12AX7 that I had lying around and my sound was back. Before I go to return this tube and get another one...are they know for this type of quality? I loved the sound, but if they are not reliable, I may go with something else. Just like to hear what anyone else's experience was with this tube. Thanks

 

[Heritage Softail]

I bought 10 of them to put in my MKV and Rectifier. No issues yet. The MKV had a stock factory tube start going bad in 2 weeks. I think tubes are somewhat vulnerable to shipping bumps and what not.

???

 

[screamingdaisy]

Love their preamp tubes. Great sounding and I've never had any issues with them.

I do however have a set of their EL34Bs and they sound like poo.

 

[lespauljoe1]

I've had issues with Tung-Sol's as well, especially in my Mesa. It's funny, I used them for a while in Marshall's and Fender's and didn't have any issues, but all of a sudden it started. The sound didn't stop completely, I would get a very loud awfull hum. I didn't know what it was at first and was getting ready to take my amp in to have it serviced. I decided to take a look at the tubes and noticed one was not glowing very brightly, so I replaced it and that was the problem. I have had several blow since. It seemed to really happen in the V4 position on my Electra Dyne.

I have replaced all my preamp tubes with new JJ's and haven't had any issues with blown tubes since. I really liked the tone of the Tung-Sol's too. They really seemed to have a smooth, sweet character.

I actually have 6 NOS RCA and 1 GE preamp tubes on the way. I'm going to try these. They are really supposed to be very quiet and have a sweet tone that tames some of the high end harshness. We'll see.

 

[swbo101]

I've had issues with Tung-Sol's as well, especially in my Mesa. It's funny, I used them for a while in Marshall's and Fender's and didn't have any issues, but all of a sudden it started. The sound didn't stop completely, I would get a very loud awfull hum. I didn't know what it was at first and was getting ready to take my amp in to have it serviced. I decided to take a look at the tubes and noticed one was not glowing very brightly, so I replaced it and that was the problem. I have had several blow since. It seemed to really happen in the V4 position on my Electra Dyne.

I have replaced all my preamp tubes with new JJ's and haven't had any issues with blown tubes since. I really liked the tone of the Tung-Sol's too. They really seemed to have a smooth, sweet character.

I actually have 6 NOS RCA and 1 GE preamp tubes on the way. I'm going to try these. They are really supposed to be very quiet and have a sweet tone that tames some of the high end harshness. We'll see.

I also love the sound of the Tung-sol..at least for the one day it worked. I will give it another try and see what happens..What Mesa did you put it in? Did you try it in any other position besides V4? Also were you running in full power mode or a reduced "tweed" mode.

Thanks

 

[lespauljoe1]

I've had issues with Tung-Sol's as well, especially in my Mesa. It's funny, I used them for a while in Marshall's and Fender's and didn't have any issues, but all of a sudden it started. The sound didn't stop completely, I would get a very loud awfull hum. I didn't know what it was at first and was getting ready to take my amp in to have it serviced. I decided to take a look at the tubes and noticed one was not glowing very brightly, so I replaced it and that was the problem. I have had several blow since. It seemed to really happen in the V4 position on my Electra Dyne.

I have replaced all my preamp tubes with new JJ's and haven't had any issues with blown tubes since. I really liked the tone of the Tung-Sol's too. They really seemed to have a smooth, sweet character.

I actually have 6 NOS RCA and 1 GE preamp tubes on the way. I'm going to try these. They are really supposed to be very quiet and have a sweet tone that tames some of the high end harshness. We'll see.

I also love the sound of the Tung-sol..at least for the one day it worked. I will give it another try and see what happens..What Mesa did you put it in? Did you try it in any other position besides V4? Also were you running in full power mode or a reduced "tweed" mode.

Thanks

I put them in my Electra Dyne. I honestly don't recall if they blew in more locations than V4 or not. I replaced the bad tube(s) a few times before I noticed if it was the same location.

I put the Tung-Sol's in all seven positions. Several tubes blew before I gave up. I replaced the blown tube each time and retried only to have another blow. Maybe I got a bad batch, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure if I was running the amp at full or half power as I use both quite a lot.

 

[swbo101]

Thanks for the reply...The one I got was the last one at my local music store. One of the pins seemed ever so slightly bent. I thought that wouldn't matter since it fired up OK the first time. However I REALLY did like the sound I got from it in the V1 postition. I just ordered some more one line. I'm hoping it was just a bad one. Crossing my fingers..lol Much appreciated!!!

 

[94Tremoverb]

Modern tubes are crap. That's really all there is to it - sometimes you're lucky and get a dozen that last years with no faults, sometimes you're unlucky and get three in a row that blow. Sometimes they blow right out of the box or shortly afterwards. The 'testing' done by a lot of brand labeling vendors doesn't seem to be tough enough to weed out all the bad ones.

Russian 12AX7s are especially crap in locations that are configured as cathode followers - which definitely includes V3 and V4 in Rectifiers (I don't know anything about the Electrodyne, but I suspect it might be the same) and sometimes phase inverters... basically any position where the cathode voltage is above typical 'near ground' potential. (Also other positions in other amps... V1 in the Maverick and Blue Angel, V2 in vintage Marshalls, other positions in other Marshalls, etc.) Sometimes they fail outright and cause silence or a hum, sometimes they just sound bad or pop and crackle. Half Power settings can't have anything to do with it because that only applies to the power tubes. Chinese and JJ (Slovakian) tubes don't seem to have the same problem... although they aren't perfectly reliable either.

Also just to be clear, this (and other quality problems) is an issue with the modern so-called "reissue" Tung-Sols which are made in Russia. The original US-made Tung-Sols from the 1950s and 60s are some of the best tubes ever made, and although you do sometimes still get a bad one (that's the nature of tubes unfortunately) they are nothing at all alike.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Chinese and JJ (Slovakian) tubes don't seem to have the same problem... although they aren't perfectly reliable either.

I've found JJ short plates to be reliable. JJ long plates on the other hand kept going microphonic and/or dying shortly after being stuck inside any amp I had at the time.

 

[swbo101]

Russian 12AX7s are especially crap in locations that are configured as cathode followers - which definitely includes V3 and V4 in Rectifiers (I don't know anything about the Electrodyne, but I suspect it might be the same) and sometimes phase inverters... basically any position where the cathode voltage is above typical 'near ground' potential. (Also other positions in other amps... V1 in the Maverick and Blue Angel, V2 in vintage Marshalls, other positions in other Marshalls, etc.) Sometimes they fail outright and cause silence or a hum, sometimes they just sound bad or pop and crackle.

I was using it solely for the purpose for the V1 position in a Mesa Mark IV. Again I really loved the breath of the sound it gave me. However, as I stated earlier, the next day no sound. That tube was dead. Replaced it with a stock Mesa 12AX7 I had lying around just so that I could play. I'm going to try a few more Tung-Sols. Give them a benefit of the doubt. If these don't work, I'll stick with the Mesa's for now until I find something else more reliable.

 

[212Mavguy]

Read 94 Tremoverb's post... and then re read it! His words are pretty damn truthful.

Please don't refer to the reissue tube without putting the "RI" suffix after it, it's a real slam on the real Tung Sol design to not do so, and displays ignorance to boot. Compared to old stock tubes, modern tubes ARE crap. Yes, the JJ's tend to be more reliable in my experience than a lot of modern production tube types, but get your hands on a vintage Tesla e83cc or ecc803s (JJ shortplate's grand daddy) and you will never want a JJ again.

 

[swbo101]

Read 94 Tremoverb's post... and then re read it! His words are pretty damn truthful.

Please don't refer to the reissue tube without putting the "RI" suffix after it, it's a real slam on the real Tung Sol design to not do so, and displays ignorance to boot. Compared to old stock tubes, modern tubes ARE crap. Yes, the JJ's tend to be more reliable in my experience than a lot of modern production tube types, but get your hands on a vintage Tesla e83cc or ecc803s (JJ shortplate's grand daddy) and you will never want a JJ again.

I didn't mean to offend anyone/anything and thought it was fairly obvious that I was speaking about re-issued tubes. 94Tremoverb understood. I apologize if I'm not up on the sub-culture acronyms ("RI"), and will be sure to use them in the future. I've been playing for 36 years and never really spent the time learning about the hardware..always just focused on the playing. When I was younger and played out more I had friends who took the time out to keep my gear running. Just lately I've gotten interested in having a more hands on approach myself. Again I always have appreciated the insight I've received in this forums. Thanks

 

[212Mavguy]

I am the one who owes an apology here. Sorry to sound so curmudgeonly.

 

[lespauljoe1]

I'm not sure who may know about this site, but the guy that runs the business (Mike) seems extremely knowledgable. He has many NOS tubes as well as new production tubes.

He states in the description of the modern or RI Tung-Sol's, that they are not for cathode follower stages. That is probably why I ran into problems with my amps I feel. As I said earlier, I know I blew these tubes in V4 on more then one occassion in my ED, but I didn't make a mental note of any other locations.

As you and I have stated "swbo101", these are actually good sounding tubes. Apparently Mike feels the same, because this is the only new RI tube he recommended. I simply asked his opinion on tubes in various price ranges and the RI TS is what he suggested on the low end of the price range. Below is his quote.

"In new production the best option would be the Tung Sol Reissue 12AX7s ($15)."

 

[94Tremoverb]

What's really wrong about all this is that these tubes should not actually be sold as 12AX7s at all, since they don't meet the minimum design spec... which includes a cathode-to-filament voltage rating of 250V, enough for cathode-follower positions - and why the designers of amps who based their circuits around *proper* 12AX7s did not see a problem with using this configuration. (In fact, many tube amps run the tubes *over* the design spec, because the designers knew the old tubes usually exceeded the spec - which is a *minimum* - and would take it.)

Unfortunately these are not by any means the only modern-production tubes which simply fail to meet the correct spec for the tube type. But when they're selling tubes that cost less in actual dollar numbers (never mind inflation-adjusted) than the real tubes did 25 years ago, maybe it's not surprising that you get crap...

 

[swbo101]

Does anyone know...when you go to places like TubeDepot.com...and they say they do standard testing for free before they ship...what are they actually testing?