Tubes to tighten up a Mark IIC+

[exbest182]

hey guys,

I'm having a love/hate relationship with my IIC+, and on the brink of selling it.. I'm not sure how to describe it, it's a tad too warm... it's not as tight as I'd like it... now I know the IIC+ and the V are two different animals... I have stock Mesa tubes across the board in the V... and Mesa 440 power tubes in the IIC+, with Dougs tubes preamp kit, which is a Tung in V1, Penta Labs in V2 and V3, and Sovtek in v4... Playing rhythm strumming out chords etc.. it roawrs.. but palm muting is kind of too warm and while it's not flubby, it's not really tight either... i don't have this issue on the V... could changing out some of the preamp tubes fix this for me?? or what could I do to tighten it up, its new back from Mesa so it's not anything maintenance wise... if tubes could help, does anybody have some suggestions on some tubes? I may throw some stock Mesa tubes in there and see if that changes it... I'm about to sell it if I can't get it where I want it... I don't want to, but right now it's getting out performed by my Mark V.

 

[mule#1]

I'd think the power amp tubes more than anything. How are you running your EQ? I'm thinking you could adjust what you want out of that. Especially in the 3 mid sliders!

 

[JOEY B.]

Tube amplifier = WARMTH

105 Power Transformer, STR-415's, EVM-12L speakers. That is as tight as I can stand it. Make sure your Bass and Master 1 pots are "pushed in" for maximum tightness of the bass frequencies. Are you doing an A/B test with both of your amps running through a pair of speakers in your 4x12 Recto cab? If you give your ears time to rest, your mind will play tricks on you.

 

[zodiac272]

yeah maybe stick an old school EV-12L in the bottom of your 2x12. That will stiffen it up a bit. what settings are you using? You should be able to get tight rhythm out of it easy


scott

 

[SonicProvocateur]

His amp doesn't have the 105PT I thought, I thought it was the Mark III simul trans?

Power tubes can definitely brighten and tighten the tone, but don't overlook the pre's. It's how I fine tune my amp and get the tone for sure. V1 and V3 are the most critical for me. That Tung-sol is about right up the middle on tone, but dead hot on gain, and the Sovtek is likely the murkiest for definition (in my experience). V4 is your phase inverter and while it doesn't hurt to have a high gain tube, it's better to have a well balanced tube there. V1 will define the amp's overall tone, and half of V2's triodes and all of V3 will determine your lead tone. If you want to do a baseline test, steal the Mark V's preamp tubes and try them out to see if it's your preamp tone you don't like or power amp. STR-415's are really the way to go. 8)

 

[gts]

+1 on what everybody has said.
But my first impression was lose the 440's and gets some 415's in there.
(Or old stock Sylvania 6L6GC's in the correct bias range - they are one and the same tube)

 

[Boogiebabies]

+1 on what everybody has said.
But my first impression was lose the 440's and gets some 415's in there.
(Or old stock Sylvania 6L6GC's in the correct bias range - they are one and the same tube)

Or new filter caps.

 

[adonixx]

I think you have 2 issues there.

Preamp tubes: I think Tungsol (reissue) in v1 is terrible. I find it bad all around in IIC+, but i would never put it in v1. Tungsram would be my choice #1 for tighter, bigger sound. Ei, RFT, Amperex would be choices for v3-v4.

Power tubes: As far as power tubes go, STR440s are decent, but again for bigger and tighter sound in IIC+ i would go with SED =C= at least.

Anyways, im not sure what style you play but it seems that you are looking for heavy rhythm stuff, where IIC+ simul class in not at its best. (60/100 would be better choice. Simul is more liquid, 60/100 is much tighter by default.)

 

[adonixx]

His amp doesn't have the 105PT I thought, I thought it was the Mark III simul trans?

Power tubes can definitely brighten and tighten the tone, but don't overlook the pre's. It's how I fine tune my amp and get the tone for sure. V1 and V3 are the most critical for me. That Tung-sol is about right up the middle on tone, but dead hot on gain, and the Sovtek is likely the murkiest for definition (in my experience). V4 is your phase inverter and while it doesn't hurt to have a high gain tube, it's better to have a well balanced tube there. V1 will define the amp's overall tone, and half of V2's triodes and all of V3 will determine your lead tone. If you want to do a baseline test, steal the Mark V's preamp tubes and try them out to see if it's your preamp tone you don't like or power amp. STR-415's are really the way to go. 8)

I think you are talking about Mark III as far as preamp tube locations go. In IIC+ v5 is phase inverter and v3 and v4 are lead preamps.

 

[ziggys]

Just to get an idea if it's a preamp or amp thing, take the loop out of your II and run it to the loop return of your v, then speaker output of your V to a cab. Don't forget to load your II with a speaker load box or something of that sort.
Now, you are testing (isolating) the preamp section only. It's not perfect a perfect solution but may open the door to a solution.

 

[exbest182]

Here is about what I run my settings at... pretty close, might not be exact. (master volume varies)

As far as preamp tubes, I only have V1-V4, no V5... so my PI is in V4.

I'm going to swap out V1 and V3 first, and then I may order some =C= ...

I played my first show with my new band last week, and used my Mark V, and I loved it... I'm trying to talk myself out of selling it, but having trouble coming up with a reason to keep it.. I guess I'm just a Mark V fanboy.

As far as what I play fast, aggressive, punk.... no soloing really, just fast, loud, punk rock.... actually...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/47719883/Viva Valhalla - Kill.mp3 there's a song... to give you an idea of what we play...

nothing difficult at all..... and I'm considering getting a recto to go along with the Mark V for recording... but my Mark V in IIC+ mode is killing right now... I need to record some clips of it... I think you guys would dig it... it's pretty spot on to my IIC+ .. just tighter... I usually play my Mark V in Mark IV mode, but when I was tweaking the other night and doing some A/B's with my IIC+.. I loved the way I had it dialed in on IIC+ mode.. and ended up playing the show with it, and it sounded great.

I appreciate all the tips, I'm going to give it a try, it may be on the way out... I may try to pick up a 60/100 C+... who knows... the quest for tone never ends.

And yea, my IIC+ doesn't have the 105, it has the 100, with the Mark III Simul trans...

 

[JOEY B.]

Push the Master Volume pot. Pulled will result in a thicker(less tight) sound.

 

[zodiac272]

maybe try pushing V1 and the master vol in
crank the lead drive up somewhere between 6.5 to 8
try boosting the 80 hz and 6600 hz sliders up a tad

scott

 

[exbest182]

For those (if any) of you listened to that song.. do you think I'd be better off with a mark or a recto for that style of music??

 

[zodiac272]

for me, I listened to it... I'm partial to mark series


scott

 

[rgx612a]

Tighten up a mark? does not compute??? keep the bass knob low. 2 at the most.

 

[rgx612a]

+1 on what everybody has said.
But my first impression was lose the 440's and gets some 415's in there.
(Or old stock Sylvania 6L6GC's in the correct bias range - they are one and the same tube)

Or new filter caps.

This.

 

[exbest182]

So, a weird thing happened today.... I do have the head for sale locally.. a guy came over to try it out... had a gibson explorer with emgs 81/85... and plugged it in, and that and a little bit of fidgeting with the settings and the amp just went roawr.. like never before.. so tight and focused.. could it have been my pickups this whole time??? I have a les paul traditional with 57 classics, and 57 classic plus in it, and a bc rich mockingbird with rockfield mafia's... both are coming across a tad muddy... the emgs totally killed though... sounded the best i've ever heard the amp sound... a combination of the emgs and using my 2x12 versus the 4x12.. just was night and day almost.. i've never even used active pickups before... but this was just a mind boggling difference... they were a tad harsh at times... could have just been the settings.

That being said.. anybody tried out the newer hetfield signature EMGs?? they'd look pretty rad in my les paul.

 

[zodiac272]

yeah, EMG's will have that effect if you have been using passive pups. I have 81/60 in two explorers, and 81/SA/SA in my strat style. I love the way the EMG's sound... hot and tight

I haven't tried the JH set, but I'm sure they will sound pretty good, but I see no reason to get them. 81/60 works for me.


with those EMG's, did that make the C+ as good as the V to you? Better than the V? Still not as good?


scott

 

[JOEY B.]

So, a weird thing happened today.... I do have the head for sale locally.. a guy came over to try it out... had a gibson explorer with emgs 81/85... and plugged it in, and that and a little bit of fidgeting with the settings and the amp just went roawr.. like never before.. so tight and focused.. could it have been my pickups this whole time??? I have a les paul traditional with 57 classics, and 57 classic plus in it, and a bc rich mockingbird with rockfield mafia's... both are coming across a tad muddy... the emgs totally killed though... sounded the best i've ever heard the amp sound... a combination of the emgs and using my 2x12 versus the 4x12.. just was night and day almost.. i've never even used active pickups before... but this was just a mind boggling difference... they were a tad harsh at times... could have just been the settings.

That being said.. anybody tried out the newer hetfield signature EMGs?? they'd look pretty rad in my les paul.

I have the SLVx/SLVx/85x combo in my Jackson SL1 Soloist and added the SPC control to fatten up the Floyd Rose tone when I want. It worked wonders for this guitar. However, I witnessed a 1979 Les Paul have a very anemic clean sound with the 81/85 set and all the proper electronics. The same 1979 guitar came alive with a good set of passives, like mono to stereo. A good set of higher output passives is what I would suggest. My old 1971 greentop has a SD Pearly Gates neck and SD Custom Custom bridge pickups. I do play EV loaded ported cabs with my C+, FWIW.