Trick for getting more volume out of your V25

[primal]

One thing I think most V25 owners can all attest to is how much louder Crunch is then the other modes.

Forgetting the cleans for a moment (which get ridiculously loud IMO) I would say the following.
2C+ is the quietest
Mark IV mode is a touch louder then 2C+
Extreme is considerably louder then the previous 2
Crunch is loudest of all. By a decent margin.

I have literally played Crunch in 10 watt mode and had no problems keeping up with a very loud drummer in a 2 guitar setup.

So this got me thinking.

All these different modes share the same power section. So it would stand to reason that the difference in volume would be due to differences in the output level of the preamp section. And that perhaps the differences in the modes would cause one mode to clip and reach max output at a lower level then the others.

It would also stand to reason that if the power amp section can handle the higher output of Crunch, then if you could raise the output of the other preamp sections to something comparable it would handle that just as well.

So with that long drawn out explanation, I put my little theory to the test.

I put a 10 band MXR in the loop.
I left all the frequency sliders at 0, and increased the volume slider to around +8 or +10 db.

I then ran the amp in 2c+ mode with the pedal engaged and found the max volume I could hit was considerably louder then before. And the amp still held together very tight. I could easily hit the ear bleeding levels achieved on the crunch channel like this.

I think doing it this way is different then simply turning up the channel master, cause you eventually start clipping the preamp section before you reach the point that the power amp can go no louder.

Now, for practicing in my two guitar band setup, I don't require this.
In fact, in my band setup I only use the MXR for a solo boost.

Anyway, just something I thought I would throw out there. It got REALLY loud with this little trick. If you need it louder then I'm glad I don't have to stand in front of your rig,

 

[Arsony]

Thanks Primal!

I have noticed the same thing too and found it a bit odd. But hey... I guess your explanation is very plausible.
Will try it soon. I gather that it would work just as well with other EQ pedals or for that matter even clean boost pedals?

What are your thoughts? Thanks!

Arsony

 

[primal]

I would assume any eq or boost would work.

Just know that you are adding whatever coloration the pedal adds to your tone as well. The MXR does a nice job of leaving the original tone unmolested.

The idea actually came from looking at the schematic of an old Randall RG100es (best solid state amp for old school metal ever made IMO )

Those familiar with that amp know if you pull out the treble knob, the gain gets ridiculous. The problem is that it cuts the volume down considerably.

After looking at the schematic it became clear the reason for the volume drop was that when you pulled the treble knob, you introduced additional clipping diodes into the signal chain of the preamp. While this increased the distortion a lot, it did this by clipping the amplitude of the signal coming in. Amplitude (atleast to my knowledge) IS volume. So when that signal got clipped, it was only going to get so loud.

I applied this to the V25.

And it definitely works

 

[scoden]

Maybe i'm wrong but I think the only thing this achieves is making the volumes appear more equal.
In other words, if crunch has master on 10 o clock and mkiv mode has it on 1 oclock to balance out ,
You could use the boost and turn down the master on mkiv mode.
Its not adding anymore headroom that isnt already built in Its just bringing it on quicker on the master vol pot.

Am I missing something here?

 

[primal]

Maybe i'm wrong but I think the only thing this achieves is making the volumes appear more equal.
In other words, if crunch has master on 10 o clock and mkiv mode has it on 1 oclock to balance out ,
You could use the boost and turn down the master on mkiv mode.
Its not adding anymore headroom that isnt already built in Its just bringing it on quicker on the master vol pot.

Am I missing something here?

yes and no.

"No" in that you are utilizing head room already built into the power amp section.

"Yes" in that it does not make the volume "appear" more equal. You aren't using the boost to drop one of the volumes, you are using it to raise the volume. More specifically you are boosting the output signal on the channel 2 preamp section to achieve the same volume achievable on Crunch mode.

The amp has a max volume at which point pushing it harder will only make it clip and not go louder. I use crunch mode as my baseline for how loud that amp can be and how much headroom it has on tap.

What it appears to me is Channel 2 and more so the 2c+ and Mark IV modes are not using all the headroom at there disposal

Some may say "So, just turn the channel master up on channel 2, who cares if the knob is just set higher".

You have a preamp section and a power amp section. Both sections will clip when pushed. What is "appears" to me is that the preamp section, especially in 2c+ mode does not utilize all the headroom on tap, EVEN when the channel the channel master is pushed. So even raising the channel master (atleast to my untrained ears) the preamp section will not take advantage of how loud this amp can really be. And the tone will loosen up before it gets to a volume achievable by crunch mode.

using a good boost you can keep the channel master at a point where it stays tight and achieve the volume you can get with crunch.

DISCLAIMER: I have never required this for my V25. 2C+ mode gets plenty loud enough for me playing through a mesa 1x12 compact cab with a V30 in a 2 guitar setup. I was just messing around thinking about how crunch could get so much louder then anything on channel 2. Even Extreme.