Trem-o-verb cleans

[metalmarlon]

Ok... so I got the tremoverb and I'm working on getting cleans.

What are some settings. It seems that I cannot take the gain knob past 9 o'clock without it becoming dirty.

It is just weird because my 2 channel duel rec can have the gain up to about 1-2 while still being very clean.

Is this normal?

 

[94Tremoverb]

With high-output pickups mine starts to break up just after 10 o'clock. I think that's normal - the other ones I've played (I think) did the same. I don't remember the 2-channel DRs I've played being any cleaner either, so maybe it's that one that's weird?! The 3-channel is a totally different thing obviously.

My normal clean settings are (o'clock): gain 10, treble about 1, mid 7 (really), bass 5 (really!), presence about 1, master 5 (really!!), LAM as appropriate or bypass loop and use attenuator. Treble and presence vary a bit depending on room, guitar, mood etc, the others stay pegged. Power setting usually Bold/Tube. Reverb about 10.

I do have a couple of 12AT7s in mine though, in V5 (reverb drive and one gain stage in the middle of the signal path somewhere) and V6 (phase inverter), which makes the amp a bit cleaner overall.

 

[vitor gracie]

It could be the way you have the channel cloning set on the back. Set to the middle gives you "Vintage" on channel 1 and "Modern" on channel 2. Setting it on "Orange to Modern" changes channel 1 because by default (in the middle) channel 1 it vintage. When switched this way, it lets you have to Modern Red settings on the amp. That means that if your switch on the front is set to clean, it's effected too. In "vintage High Gain" you get a high gain red channel 1 in place of your clean channel. So if you where in a death metal band and needed high gain rhythm and the same channel on channel 2, you could have it like that. I believe thats the reason Canibal Corpse went so crazy about the Rectos when they first came out (but I digress)

I found that when my TOV is set to channel 1 modern mode, I can't get it to clean up when set to clean. It's brash, too top endy, too bassy and distorts even on low gain setting. Higher out put pickups make me want to say "Fuhgetaboutit"

Try setting the switch in the back to the center position. Or, you can change the switch to "Red to Vintage" and it will keep the clean in the vintage setting while giving you channel 2 as "Vintage High Gain"

I know that seems like a lot of info, and to be honest... it took me a long time to adjust to the amp. I ended up switching guitars to better fit the amp and get its true potential. But for me, the change was good and I can deeply appreciate the TOVs now even after all these years. It's still my main working amp and it's what I measure all other amps up to. You may also experiment with different pickups. I found that in a 2 humbucker equipped guitar, the neck pick up tapped is my bread winner. It's very strat like and has a nice top end glass to it. However, single coils sound even better.

Let me know if that helps.

 

[94Tremoverb]

That's interesting... and odd! I'm sure the channel cloning doesn't affect the clean mode on mine. At least, I can't hear any difference if I flick the switch while I'm in the clean mode. I assumed it was meant to be like that - I've played a couple of other Tremoverbs but I can't honestly say I looked for it since Orange to Modern is something I rarely use, and only ever when I want Blues and Modern High Gain together (hence I always have the front panel switch set to Vintage High Gain).

But when I got it, part of the channel cloning in the Red to Vintage mode wasn't working due to a dead LDR, which I fixed - so maybe there's still something wrong... although the Vintage High Gain mode on the Orange channel does correctly change to Modern when you operate the switch. I just assumed the cloning was only meant to affect the High Gain modes - the same as on the Red channel, where Blues is not affected, but I've read elsewhere that this is indeed normal.

In fact, if mine is broken, I think I want it to stay like that!

 

[vitor gracie]

Yeah, I agree...it's kinda odd. I discovered the secret "Red/Modern" clean mode when I was playing G&L guitars. I had a model that had hum canceling single coil style pickups and they where awful sounding on the normal "Orange/Vintage" clean mode. The guitar sounded abnormally rounded on the top end and smooth..exactly what I was NOT looking for in a strat. I wanted spanky quaky top end and glassy highs. The only way I could get it at the time was to set the Clean mode to Red/Modern. I got all this high end that the middle position (normal) and the "Red to Vintage" didn't have with that particular guitar. I switched to using PRS and went back to the normal clean. (vintage) and use my amp like that to this day. I never have it set to Red/Modern.

The second TOV I got had major LDR issues. (this was recent) In the store (after coming back from the shop) the clean was set to "modern" (so that would be Orange to Modern mode) and it distorted like crazy. I had the switch on the front set to CLEAN mode not the high gain mode and it was nothing but yucky distortion. I told them it was still broke and later discovered it was just set to Modern on the back.

Lastly, there could be another reason why your clean is not sounding clean enough, Metalmarlon. The dreaded LDR issue. To give you a scenario, the first thing I discovered was wrong with my newer TOV was that I could actually HEAR the CLEAN coming through on both distortion settings. (red and orange) It was horrible sounding...as if the amp was not switching over to one or the other all the way. When I palm muted, it was like chugging on your bridge humbuckers on CLEAN...that awful yucky flubby clean distortion was coming through on the gain channel making it sound like complete ass. So, your TOV may be the reverse. your distortion may be coming through on your clean channel. I'm not sure if thats possible but, from now on any older TOVs I'm considering buying...I'm having them put through the ringer after that. It was a very challenging issue with the amp for me.

I'd have it checked. Good luck man.

Lastly, 94Tremoverb... channel cloning does not effect the blues mode whatsoever. Most guys don't know about the two different clean modes (Modern and Vintage) but they are definitely there. It's not something you would normally discover because most people use the amp with a clean and a dirty the normal way. But I promise you, it's for sure a real option. I am going to see if I can find a use for that weird clean mode now... LOL!

 

[vitor gracie]

HOLY CRAP! I never set the "clean" gain knob up to intentionally distort the first channel the whole time I have owned the amp. I have used it on "Vintage high gain" for channel 1 but never had it set to clean on the front and "Orange to Modern" on the back like we have been talking about. It's AWESOME!

Everything I loved about the Roadster's channel 2 Brit mode but more gain! The draw back was that on my TOV combo, the highs where earsplitting. I had to turn the presence way down, but set your gain knob to like 3 O'Clock and it drives in a really crusty ole Marshall kinda way. The mids are fantastic and it's crisp and biting like you'd imagine a Stiletto to be. I actually spent a couple hundred dollars on a boutique pedal to get this same "clean/biting drive" distortion. I never realized it was in the amp already!

Think old school Metallica kinda distortion but maybe not as percussive. It sounds like a bug ugly overdriven Marshall but more recto in the frequencies...at least that's what it sounded like to me. Again, this is the CLEAN setting on the front with the channel cloning on the back set to "Orange to Modern" which sets channel one to the red mode. Try it. its HOT! lol

So this bridges that gap between liquid leads on the Blues mode, sparkly vibrant cleans, Orange Vintage High Gain tight distortion, Red/Modern crushing Recto chugging, and now that in between blasting Marshall mid gain overdrive that I love so much. What a perfect amp for my needs!

I should do a TOV commercial, or better yet, a Youtube video on the many uses of the mighty TOV. LOL!

 

[94Tremoverb]

Ha... these amps are so versatile that you can have one for years and not find all the sounds .

I have heard the distortion in the normal (vintage) clean mode - mostly not on purpose - and don't really like it much... but interesting about the 'Clean to Modern' mode, if it sounds good when you intentionally distort it I will have to find out why mine isn't working now... actually I have to get inside it again at some time because just occasionally, the Red channel only has about a quarter of its normal gain (no matter which mode/control setting, which all work correctly but it's like you've turned the guitar down to 3) so I'm sure that's another LDR on the way out as well.

For what it's worth I use PRS (and Rickenbacker!) guitars with mine, so I'm guessing we would find similar tones.

 

[vitor gracie]

Yeah bro, I was a PRS guy up until I made the switch to Warrior GUitars. I am pretty sure we are getting similar tones. Warriors are very "PRS Inspired" which is why I went to them.

http://www.warriorinstruments.com/site/

I actually have an endorsement with them and am listed as one of the artists on their site.

 

[cscotto]

Hi,

I just thought I would chime in on the channel cloning. My Tverb works the same way yours doe 94Tverb. The channel cloning only affects vintage hi-gain in the orange channel and modern hi-gain in the red channel. Having said that, the clean channel is not unaffected by switching orange to modern. I do not hear more distortion, but I do hear an increase in volume. When the volume increases, whatever distortion is present in the clean signal simply becomes more pronounced. By the way, with EMG in my ESP Eclipse, the clean channel starts to distort around 9:30.

By the way, the change in the clean mode with the channel cloning set orange to modern is exactly the way it is supposed to work. The manual has a section on this in the section on the presence control:

"Another cool use for this alternate PRESENCE frequency shows up when you use the VINTAGE ORANGE channels' clean mode. Use the channel cloning switch on the rear panel and revioice the ORANGE channel to MODERN. You will hear your rhythm sound get louder and much punchier. This difference is largely due to moving and revoking the PRESENCE. This occurs automatically when you "Modernize" the ORANGE channel and now you instantly have a Vintage clean pre-amp with a Modern power section. This can be useful at larger gigs to boos the clean sound volume level or simply as an alternate voicing of the same mode style."

HTH

 

[94Tremoverb]

In that case mine definitely isn't working right - I must have missed that bit in the manual! (Which I admit I barely read.) On mine there's no change at all in the Clean mode, either tone or volume. It should be quite noticeable if it's turning off the NFB loop, which is part of the Modern voicing - that's 'moving and revoking the Presence' - and would certainly make it louder and more dynamic, as well as doing exactly what you say, not actually increasing gain but making the distortion more pronounced.

This gives me an incentive to get inside and change some LDRs. I think I've found which one it is from the schematic... which is not the easiest thing to work out! I think it looks like it's actually stuck in Modern, not the other way round.

Thanks!

 

[vitor gracie]

94Tremoverb, you should definitely look into it. There is a really noticeable effect on the cleans. It's a very useful feature to have because it will allow you to match your clean voicing to your guitar. I have played a lot of different guitars through my TOV over the years and they all leaned one way or the other as far as which mode worked best for what guitar. Even my PRS guitars had "preferences" tone wise despite having the exact same neck pickups in all three. Some just behaved better with one mode then the other.

If your stuck in one, your probably used to it, and the other may sound very off to you. I for sure have a preference and settle live to just try to make the other guitars work on that one clean, but it's a good thing to fix in the amp. It's always better to be given the option with such a great sounding rig.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Ha, I've found out what's wrong... and I'm not fixing it!

The LDR (#10) for the 'blanket circuit' (mentioned in another thread) - that turns on to smooth out the Orange channel, and is turned *off* when cloning Orange to Modern, isn't working. Ha ha! I wondered why my Tremoverb sounded so much better than a couple of other ones I've played, especially on the Vintage High-Gain mode, which on mine I can make *really* Marshally, and on the clean. Basically Orange is *partly* (but not completely) cloned to Modern the whole time. The negative feedback loop switching is still working, so I *don't* want to fix the 'blanket circuit', because that would only give me the option of fully cloning Orange to Modern, which still works and sounds a lot different.

I always did hate smooth sounds anyway. I tried temporarily bypassing the dead LDR and it sounded like crap (at least to me). I'm now no longer puzzled by why other people say theirs doesn't nail Marshall tones either.

 

[YellowJacket]

Haha Tremoverb, you should 'break' the LDR as part of a 'brit-mod' for these amps!