Trading Mark III for Mark IV?

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

I want something less harsh, more smooth, tighter, and more versitile. Like a LOG/Petrucci tone. I have a Mark III Red Stripe non-simulclass 100 watt head with GEQ and Reverb. How much would you ask for if I offered you a partial trade for a Mark IV? Also, would you trade a Mark IV Combo for a Mark III half-stack with V30's?

 

[Mark III Man]

I want something less harsh, more smooth, tighter, and more versitile. Like a LOG/Petrucci tone. I have a Mark III Red Stripe non-simulclass 100 watt head with GEQ and Reverb. How much would you ask for if I offered you a partial trade for a Mark IV? Also, would you trade a Mark IV Combo for a Mark III half-stack with V30's?

With all due respect.... you're nuts trading in the Mark III red stripe! No offense intended, please! The red stripe is "THE" Mark III amp to have for the closest to the Mark IIC+..... I have had a Mark IV widebody combo and while it was a cool new amp and didn't "suck", I preferred the Mark III.... It is tighter, chunkier, you can dial-out the fizz or perceived harshness, etc.... I have an '89 green stripe and everyone freaks over the tone and I'm a Marshall amp guy for the most part!

Brian

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

I want something less harsh, more smooth, tighter, and more versitile. Like a LOG/Petrucci tone. I have a Mark III Red Stripe non-simulclass 100 watt head with GEQ and Reverb. How much would you ask for if I offered you a partial trade for a Mark IV? Also, would you trade a Mark IV Combo for a Mark III half-stack with V30's?

With all due respect.... you're nuts trading in the Mark III red stripe! No offense intended, please! The red stripe is "THE" Mark III amp to have for the closest to the Mark IIC+..... I have had a Mark IV widebody combo and while it was a cool new amp and didn't "suck", I preferred the Mark III.... It is tighter, chunkier, you can dial-out the fizz or perceived harshness, etc.... I have an '89 green stripe and everyone freaks over the tone and I'm a Marshall amp guy for the most part!

Brian

Well i'm not likin' the tone. I was thinking it was the tubes, but IDK. I love all the knobs and switches and the dual-eq of the Mark IV, which I need. I also like the tone better.

 

[ev1ltwin]

what tubes you got in v1, v2, and v3?

 

[ev1ltwin]

also, when was the last time you had the amp taken in for maintenance/look over by a tech? all the red stripes are at least 20 years old at this point...

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

^^^^^^
Preamp tubes are stock Mesa's that are around 2 years old. And one of my preamp tubes (the one with the cover) just shattered, so the amp makes no sound. I've only had it since late Janurary, and I haven't taken it too a tech.

 

[edgecrusher]

Dude, go to eurotubes.com, and order a set JJ 12xa7s. Right now. You should be nailing the tones you're looking for.

Here's a vid of my red stripe in action to give you an idea, though I am using EVM-12Ls in my Mesa cab and a TS808 Tubescremer up front (it's just as tight without it though). I have a Tung-Sol in V1 with JJ's in the rest of the preamp, and it's tight as can be. I can say I'm not really a fan of actives myself, and I'm using the Dimarzio D-Sonic and Air Norton which really helps nail the Dream Theater stuff, since that's what Petrucci uses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJx0entdOVk&feature=related

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

Which will affect tone more, preamp tubes or power tubes?

 

[edgecrusher]

The preamps tubes make the tone, and the power tubes amplify that tone. The power tubes make a difference, but the preamp tubes have more of an effect on the overall tone.

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

The preamps tubes make the tone, and the power tubes amplify that tone. The power tubes make a difference, but the preamp tubes have more of an effect on the overall tone.

Ok, thanks. Does it matter where I put a preamp tube or can I just put any wherever (in the amp). I was trying to put the one with the cover in there, but I couldnt get to it, and I bent my pins. While trying to bend them back, two snapped off so I got pissed and threw it on the ground and it shatters. And now my amp puts out no sound. Should I take it to a tech to replace them, I don't wanna f anything up like the incident in which I just informed you. This is my 3rd tube amp. My first I got in November, broke in Janurary, so I bought a new one but it sucked so I returned it and bought my Mark III. I've never replaced tubes (or even taken them out until now)

 

[dodger916]

The preamps tubes make the tone, and the power tubes amplify that tone. The power tubes make a difference, but the preamp tubes have more of an effect on the overall tone.

Ok, thanks. Does it matter where I put a preamp tube or can I just put any wherever (in the amp). I was trying to put the one with the cover in there, but I couldnt get to it, and I bent my pins. While trying to bend them back, two snapped off so I got pissed and threw it on the ground and it shatters. And now my amp puts out no sound. Should I take it to a tech to replace them, I don't wanna f anything up like the incident in which I just informed you. This is my 3rd tube amp. My first I got in November, broke in Janurary, so I bought a new one but it sucked so I returned it and bought my Mark III. I've never replaced tubes (or even taken them out until now)

The tube in V1 (closest to input jack) has the greatest overall affect on tone. The one with the cover should be V1. V5 also has a global impact on tone, but not as profound as V1. Slots 2-4 control other aspects of the amp (R2, R3, reverb, etc..). The manual may contain this information. Here's the link: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf

If you own a tube amp, you MUST be able to replace tubes. It's as basic as putting oil in your car. It's pretty easy to replace preamp tubes, it just requires a little patience. You'll notice the tube has one spot without a pin. The socket also has a corresponding slot with no pin accepter. Just make sure the two are lined up and you'll be fine. If you're not sure, you can pull the next tube and observe the location of the blank slot. In my experience, the tube sockets are arranged with the same pin order, meaning the blank slot should be in the same relative location on all tube sockets.

Power tubes are a little different as they contain a key on the center pin that will line up with the keyway on the tube socket.

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

The preamps tubes make the tone, and the power tubes amplify that tone. The power tubes make a difference, but the preamp tubes have more of an effect on the overall tone.

Ok, thanks. Does it matter where I put a preamp tube or can I just put any wherever (in the amp). I was trying to put the one with the cover in there, but I couldnt get to it, and I bent my pins. While trying to bend them back, two snapped off so I got pissed and threw it on the ground and it shatters. And now my amp puts out no sound. Should I take it to a tech to replace them, I don't wanna f anything up like the incident in which I just informed you. This is my 3rd tube amp. My first I got in November, broke in Janurary, so I bought a new one but it sucked so I returned it and bought my Mark III. I've never replaced tubes (or even taken them out until now)

The tube in V1 (closest to input jack) has the greatest overall affect on tone. The one with the cover should be V1. V5 also has a global impact on tone, but not as profound as V1. Slots 2-4 control other aspects of the amp (R2, R3, reverb, etc..). The manual may contain this information. Here's the link: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf

If you own a tube amp, you MUST be able to replace tubes. It's as basic as putting oil in your car. It's pretty easy to replace preamp tubes, it just requires a little patience. You'll notice the tube has one spot without a pin. The socket also has a corresponding slot with no pin accepter. Just make sure the two are lined up and you'll be fine. If you're not sure, you can pull the next tube and observe the location of the blank slot. In my experience, the tube sockets are arranged with the same pin order, meaning the blank slot should be in the same relative location on all tube sockets.

Power tubes are a little different as they contain a key on the center pin that will line up with the keyway on the tube socket.

So it doesn't matter which tube is placed where? And I can't really get to V1 to place in the tube.

 

[therealboogieman]

You might need to take the chassis out, I have a red stripe mark 3 and if I am replacing anything other than power tubes I have to do this. It isn't that hard, just removing the four screws on the top of the amp.

Cheers

 

[dodger916]

Ok, thanks. Does it matter where I put a preamp tube or can I just put any wherever (in the amp). I was trying to put the one with the cover in there, but I couldnt get to it, and I bent my pins. While trying to bend them back, two snapped off so I got pissed and threw it on the ground and it shatters. And now my amp puts out no sound. Should I take it to a tech to replace them, I don't wanna f anything up like the incident in which I just informed you. This is my 3rd tube amp. My first I got in November, broke in Janurary, so I bought a new one but it sucked so I returned it and bought my Mark III. I've never replaced tubes (or even taken them out until now)

The tube in V1 (closest to input jack) has the greatest overall affect on tone. The one with the cover should be V1. V5 also has a global impact on tone, but not as profound as V1. Slots 2-4 control other aspects of the amp (R2, R3, reverb, etc..). The manual may contain this information. Here's the link: http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%20III.pdf

If you own a tube amp, you MUST be able to replace tubes. It's as basic as putting oil in your car. It's pretty easy to replace preamp tubes, it just requires a little patience. You'll notice the tube has one spot without a pin. The socket also has a corresponding slot with no pin accepter. Just make sure the two are lined up and you'll be fine. If you're not sure, you can pull the next tube and observe the location of the blank slot. In my experience, the tube sockets are arranged with the same pin order, meaning the blank slot should be in the same relative location on all tube sockets.

Power tubes are a little different as they contain a key on the center pin that will line up with the keyway on the tube socket.

So it doesn't matter which tube is placed where? And I can't really get to V1 to place in the tube.

In this instance it doesn't matter. (It only matters with regards to tailoring the tone of the amp. Forget this for now.)

If you cant reach the slot, you can either remove power tubes or remove the front panel. If you remove power tubes, NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE KEY ON THE CENTER POST for easy re-installation.

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

In this instance it doesn't matter. (It only matters with regards to tailoring the tone of the amp. Forget this for now.)

If you cant reach the slot, you can either remove power tubes or remove the front panel. If you remove power tubes, NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE KEY ON THE CENTER POST for easy re-installation.

Aww, I don't trust myself enough to take anything out. I think i'm just gonna take it too a tech.

 

[dodger916]

In this instance it doesn't matter. (It only matters with regards to tailoring the tone of the amp. Forget this for now.)

If you cant reach the slot, you can either remove power tubes or remove the front panel. If you remove power tubes, NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE KEY ON THE CENTER POST for easy re-installation.

Aww, I don't trust myself enough to take anything out. I think i'm just gonna take it too a tech.

Cool. No offense, and not to be preachy, but if you want to continue owning tube amps, you should become more familiar with them. Tube replacement is about as basic as it gets. You can also seriously damage the amp (and yourself!) if not careful.

 

[xT00BZRG00Dx]

In this instance it doesn't matter. (It only matters with regards to tailoring the tone of the amp. Forget this for now.)

If you cant reach the slot, you can either remove power tubes or remove the front panel. If you remove power tubes, NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE KEY ON THE CENTER POST for easy re-installation.

Aww, I don't trust myself enough to take anything out. I think i'm just gonna take it too a tech.

Cool. No offense, and not to be preachy, but if you want to continue owning tube amps, you should become more familiar with them. Tube replacement is about as basic as it gets. You can also seriously damage the amp (and yourself!) if not careful.

Actually, I have to learn somehow, I guess this is a place to start.

 

[Drewtone]

Actually, I have to learn somehow, I guess this is a place to start.

That's actually a really good point. It would be ideal for this first time to take it to a tech and ask if you can watch him do it. I'm guessing he'll have to dig into the V1 socket to fish out the broken pin. But either way, you'll be able to see it done the right way, which will enable you to do it yourself in the future... I used to be timid about inserting/removing tubes, but it gets real easy real quick.

On the Mark III, you definitely have to take out one or more of the power tubes to access some of the preamp tubes. The V1 has the removable metal shield, kind of hard to get at.

Before you ditch the amp, I've had my Mark III blue stripe since summer of 1988, and I'm still discovering tones on it. You definitely gotta spend time on this amp. And once you get into sampling different tubes, the sky's the limit.

However, as the poster said above, it would be wise to stick with one kind of preamp tube (best bet go with the Mesa 12ax7's across) and get comfy with a tube amp for a while first.

 

[ev1ltwin]

definitely take it to a mesa certified tech near you (http://mesaboogie.com/US/Dealers/locator/zip_search_r.php) and pay the money to get him to look over the amp (old capacitors and resistors, etc.) and show you how to change the tubes.

It's pretty much accepted on this board that the stock mesa tubes do not produce the best tones (over many different musical genres, too). They're not bad, per se, but the technician should be able to steer you in the right direction based on what sound you're looking for. Mesa-brand tubes are just other brands of tubes that have been re-branded with the mesa logo, and those tubes are mainly chosen for their reliability, not necessarily the tone.

Ask the amp tech to suggest to you 5 12ax7's and 4 6l6's (or 2 6l6 and 2 el34 if you have a simulclass model and prefer the el34 tone. the tech should be able to describe the difference in sound between 6l6's and el34's). you should be able to to retube the entire amp for under $150 (just the tubes. i'm not sure how much the tech will charge for his services).

You really got to be patient with something like vintage tube amps. they're not like miraculous or anything (despite what some people on this board will have you think... i'm talking about all you IIC+ nuts hahaha). amps just take your guitar tone and color the sound and make it loud. this is true of any amp. you will run in to the same problems you're having now even if you spend more money to get a mark IV, and you'll still have to retube that and take it to a tech at some point too. a lot of people love the sound of the mark III (all the different stripes btw. they're so similar). at some point you will understand the nuances of amps and tubes and all that good stuff. it takes time... have some patience. good luck, sir!