Tighten up a Dual Rectifier (I know...again?)

[tunedown]

I searched and searched and searched for the old threads about how to tighten up a 2ch Dual Rectifier and I couldn't find them...so I'm just makin' a new one and maybe you guys can direct me to where this comment actually belongs.

I was just passed a hint on how to tighten up a 2ch Dual Rectifier and it worked flawlessly so I thought I'd make a new thread and post it here.

If this suggestion is now "old news" feel free to delete it or move it.

Ok, so the trick is this:

Change the selector switch on the back of your amp to "Loop On ORG & RED" and then turn your effects loop output level DOWN. Compensate for a slightly lower volume by adjusting your master and channel volume levels on the front.

That's it.

This also works whether your 2ch DR has a parallel or series effects loop. Whatever your output level is, just turn it down. I turned mine down to the equivalent of 3 (my model is rev F and its like number 12 hundred something so I don't have any numbers on my dial).

I got this idea from a friend who got it from another musician. Both of them use newer (Maybe Rev F, Probably Rev G?) 2ch DRs and it worked very well for them (I know cause I heard it My DR is older and my effects loop is different but the trick worked just the same. (*note: If you have a send and return, you're going to turn down the MIX LEVEL, not the SEND LEVEL)

Also note that I don't use my effects loop. There's nothing plugged in to it at all. If you use your effects loop, clearly this is going to work completely different for you. Also, I run my DR on diodes (not rectifier tubes, mine are pulled).

I realize that there are a hundred different ways to set up a DR (or any other Mesa for that matter) but if you've ever complained that your DR sounded too loose to you and you haven't been able to fix it, give this a shot. It solved every "flubby" "muddy" or "loose" complaint I've ever had about my DR.

 

[tunedown]

so...

48 people have read this post.

Has anybody ever heard of this before?

I feel kinda stupid since nobody's made any comments about it. What I mean is, I would totally expect you guys to ignore this post if it was total nonsense. y'know...you guys can spare my feelings and just let the post vanish into the depths of the board without having to call me an idiot

The thing of it is... I know it works. You can see my confusion...

Nobody's ever heard of this or tried it before?

 

[domct203]

I use my FX Loop so my G-Major dictates my loop levels. I've heard of people cranking the send level to drive the power stage to tighten up the amp but never tried that either.

I'm guessing the amp feels more dynamic, but did you loose any punchiness?

Dom

 

[tunedown]

That's what's funny about this. I'm not cranking my send level, I'm lowering it.

And the amp didn't loose any dynamics, AND it got a lot punchier. A characteristic I attributed to tightness. I tune to d-standard and "drop c" and the amp no longer falls apart in the low end and mutes or "chugs". It's strong and punchy.

 

[giantstepjoe]

I also do this on my Roadster and it has worked for me; I keep the level knob at about 10-11 o'clock. I also use an mxr 31 band rackmount eq in the loop and I run a bbe sonic stomp at the end of my effects chain at the front of the amp. This plus the addition of a tubescreamer give my sound total focus and clarity. Oh my is she tight!

 

[bnzboy]

ya my send/return thing on the roadster is also 9-10 oclock
I actually might try lower it even more, after hearing what you've done
I use boss sd-1 to tighten a bit
and cut a looooooot of bass

 

[Mark Fore]

Does it matter if you run things through the loop? You mentioned that your loop is empty of effects. Thanks a lot for the tip. Your subscription to the board is covered now ;-).

 

[tunedown]

Does it matter if you run things through the loop? You mentioned that your loop is empty of effects. Thanks a lot for the tip. Your subscription to the board is covered now ;-).

Good question.

My ultimate goal with this amp was to make it work. My goal has always been to make it earn the 1100 bucks I spent on it. I know the advantages of running sonic maximizer or an eq pedal in the loop. Or running a tube screamer in front of it, but I've decided to suffer for a while and really work for my results.

So I'm not totally sure how the trick changes when you run gear through the loop, but I know it works either way.

 

[Kung-Fool]

I'm pretty sure all that is doing is just using the effects loop control as another volume control. You can do the same thing by cranking your master volume and turning down your channel volume.

 

[tunedown]

I'm pretty sure all that is doing is just using the effects loop control as another volume control. You can do the same thing by cranking your master volume and turning down your channel volume.

I'll test this theory on Monday.

I've tried to turn one down and crank the other, or vice versa, but I was never happy with my results unless my master volume was past 8 oclock. Anything lower then that and it seemed "thin" or "flat". I could be making that up, but this method has tightened everything up and given me more control over my sound.

I spend time between practice spaces, houses, and mic'd and un-mic'd venues. If you are correct with your assumption, then this is just an excellent method for me to control my sound across many settings and many volume level requirements.

So, at the bare minimum, it's not a trick or a fix, it's just a better way to run my head. And you can call it whatever you want, but I'm stoked that I've improved my tone for free, with a little advice from a fellow musician

 

[BMarchant]

Hey TuneDown,
I have posted this at least 10 times. Do a search on my name. You can look at your tubes and speakers to tighten things up. Start with speakers. If you are looking for tight bottom end, do not use GREENBACKs or Vintage 30s. These speakers are ment to breakup early. The bottom end and midrange with sound like ripped paper. ZakK Wild uses EV speakers for a reason. GS75s have a tight bottom end and mid range.

Next look at different tubes. Get power tubes that break up later. Also look at the actual type of tube. A 6L6 from china sounds different then one from Russia, or the 6L6GE from the US. Lots of ways to improve the amp if you know what to tweek.....

In my boogies, I use Groove Tube #7s for my power tubes. I know 4-6 are recommended..... Boogies amps are bias cold...... This makes the amp sound grainny, loose bottom end.... blah blah blah.......

If you were to take a bias reading on your amp you would see that #7 Groove tubes put the bias in the correct range. For my Dual Recto, I am running GT 6L6 GEs #7s..... My amps sound KiLLeR...... I also do the same for my LoneStar Classic... My Stiletto I run E34LS #7s....... My amps have had these in them now for over two years on the Stiletto... No issues and the amps sound great. Tight bottom end. No tube screamers, eqs ect.......... Download Miles Roses Tube Primer for guitar players.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Primers.html Every person who uses a tube amp should read this book.

Just so you know, I'm not a hack who just started using tube amps.... I was doing all this in the 1980s. My amp guys are people like Paul Rivera Sr. from Rivera amps (friend of mine who was modding my Marshalls back then), Evan from BedRock amps(also a friend)....

Bmarchant

 

[halfdriven]

thanks tunedown, I had seen this before but wasn't 100% sure about the settings so I dismissed it, great advice, made my 2 channel scream, anyone wanna buy a SD1

 

[tunedown]

thanks tunedown, I had seen this before but wasn't 100% sure about the settings so I dismissed it, great advice, made my 2 channel scream

That's what I'm talkin' about

 

[tunedown]

Hey TuneDown,
I have posted this at least 10 times. Do a search on my name. You can look at your tubes and speakers to tighten things up. Start with speakers. If you are looking for tight bottom end, do not use GREENBACKs or Vintage 30s. These speakers are ment to breakup early. The bottom end and midrange with sound like ripped paper. ZakK Wild uses EV speakers for a reason. GS75s have a tight bottom end and mid range.

Next look at different tubes. Get power tubes that break up later. Also look at the actual type of tube. A 6L6 from china sounds different then one from Russia, or the 6L6GE from the US. Lots of ways to improve the amp if you know what to tweek.....

In my boogies, I use Groove Tube #7s for my power tubes. I know 4-6 are recommended..... Boogies amps are bias cold...... This makes the amp sound grainny, loose bottom end.... blah blah blah.......

If you were to take a bias reading on your amp you would see that #7 Groove tubes put the bias in the correct range. For my Dual Recto, I am running GT 6L6 GEs #7s..... My amps sound KiLLeR...... I also do the same for my LoneStar Classic... My Stiletto I run E34LS #7s....... My amps have had these in them now for over two years on the Stiletto... No issues and the amps sound great. Tight bottom end. No tube screamers, eqs ect.......... Download Miles Roses Tube Primer for guitar players.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Primers.html Every person who uses a tube amp should read this book.

Just so you know, I'm not a hack who just started using tube amps.... I was doing all this in the 1980s. My amp guys are people like Paul Rivera Sr. from Rivera amps (friend of mine who was modding my Marshalls back then), Evan from BedRock amps(also a friend)....

Bmarchant

I remember that entire post and that's exactly the post I was referring to when I mentioned that "I searched and searched and searched for the old threads about how to tighten up a 2ch Dual Rectifier and I couldn't find them..."

I took everyone one of those things in to consideration and I've spent a lot of time reading and "listening" to what you guys have to say about how to get what I'm looking for.

I'm currently running a set of sovtek 5881s. They work well. a GE #7 may be better, but I'm trying to save for recordings and tour so I'm stickin with the 5881s for now. My preamp tubes are hi-gain JJs. They work well too.

I'm using a Mesa "over-sized" slant cab. It works well. I've tried the head with a Marshall running G75s's and it was at its loosests. I've tried it with a 5150 straight cab running a combo of stock sheffields and Eminence Legends. Sounded good and it was a little tighter so I learned a bit about how speakers effect diff freq ranges and blah blah blah. Good to know. Can't afford to re-load my cab with speakers.

BMar: For the record, I never thought you were a hack and I never ignored your original advice. I've read and absorbed everything.

Turning down my Loop Mix Level is the single greatest adjustment I've made that's improved the sound of my DR. It doesn't mean that I didn't spend hours reading tube manuals and questioning my pickups or my guitar or my cabinet or my levels or my gain settings. Cause I did ALL of that. I've really learned a lot, so thank you.

P.S: I still resent my 2chDR for making me work this hard to tighten it up and get it to perform at a level befitting a 1,500 head . And it's not cause I'm stupid or because I don't know what I'm doing, it's just cause its a Mesa and it's a beast. I was warned on this board when I had my Mark IV that these heads take knowledge and experience to dial in. I believe it now. You got me. ...Now when I hear a mesa that sounds good w/out 2 pedals in front and 2 more in the loop, I know somebody knows what the eff they're doing.

Pedal Free.

 

[MetalMatt]

If you want a tight recto I think you NEED to pick up a old Mesa Halfback cab. They are hard to find because psychodave has all of them :lol:

Tight percussive bass. No standing bass waves, very clear and adds a dryness to the sound. I will say the RK cab is the best recto cab I have played through, but with the halfback I have a use for the bass knob! It came with MS-12's on the bottom. I have read that they are "dark" I'm not nearing dark at all.

I used to do the effects loop thing, but I prefer an EQ. I really don't need my OD anymore...unless I'm feeling :twisted:

 

[tunedown]

If you want a tight recto I think you NEED to pick up a old Mesa Halfback cab. They are hard to find because psychodave has all of them :lol:

Tight percussive bass. No standing bass waves, very clear and adds a dryness to the sound. I will say the RK cab is the best recto cab I have played through, but with the halfback I have a use for the bass knob! It came with MS-12's on the bottom. I have read that they are "dark" I'm not nearing dark at all.

I used to do the effects loop thing, but I prefer an EQ. I really don't need my OD anymore...unless I'm feeling :twisted:

Ok, Learn me.

Admittedly, know nothing about the Mesa/Boogie Halfback cab. I've never tried one and I'm pretty sure I've never heard one before either. What does the "ported" enclosure do to tighten the response? Also, are there any downsides?

Also, what makes a RK cab better then the "regular"(?) Mesa cab I have now? Construction? Speakers?

 

[MetalMatt]

I will try

It's the speakers and size of the cab that tightens it all up. I think the Halfbacks are smaller than the Stiletto cabs (I'm not sure about this), and they came with high wattage speakers which also helps with the low end. The open top helps fill the room with sound, great for your cleans, and reverb.

The Road king cab, I find, is in the middle of a Recto and a Stiletto cab. It's the same size as the Recto so it still has that big bass heavy sound and it's tighter than the recto, but not as tight as a stiletto cab (I think this is because of the two separate sides, lowers the internal volume). IMO the cleans are a lot better with a RK cab than any sealed/closed back cab, due to the open back side.